dingoling.
Well-known member
None of those verses say we are saved by faith alone.Except for Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, 9:11-13, 11:5-6, etc. etc.
None of those verses say we are saved by faith alone.Except for Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, 9:11-13, 11:5-6, etc. etc.
SO then it's O.K. to kill each other, have false Gods, Rob each other, Lie, Steal your neighbor's wife, etc????Paul is referring to the works of the law, the ot law. We are not under the ot law.
No of those verses say we are saved by faith alone.Except for Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, 9:11-13, 11:5-6, etc. etc.
No, we are under the law of Christ.SO then it's O.K. to kill each other, have false Gods, Rob each other, Lie, Steal your neighbor's wife, etc????
Correct; without Christ, works do nothing.
I don't reject any part of the Bible. I take all of it into consideration.
There is nowhere in the Bible that says we are saved by faith alone.
Do any of those verses say we are saved by faith alone?
Correction, none of them do.All of them do. Faith alone saves, works evidence justification.
All of them do….Correction, none of them do.
Jesus told us to, "Enter through the narrow gate...but the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life and there are few who find it."As Jesus said in Matt 19:23+, we are not saved by works, it is impossible for humans to save themselves. Paul also states the same it is not by works.
Matt 19:23+
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
eph 2:8+
. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast
Scripture is clear salvation comes from God through faith and not works. Why is that not acceptable to RCs? If you break one law then you break then all. There is no mitigating circumstances at all, you either keep the law or you don't. Works do not save. Does this mean you and live a hedonist? The answer is a clear NO. If you are born again, saved by God all you want to do is please HIM.
Why do RCs see works as saving?
Your translation is different than mine then.All of them do….
Faith alone justifies, works evidence justification. Always, throughout the entire Bible.
Do any of those verses say we are saved by faith alone?
Fine. Semantics.The only thing your works do is evidence salvation....they do nothing to 'contribute' to it.
Sigh....head shake....They all say salvation is by "faith" and "not by works".
So when you remove works, what else is left along with faith to not be "alone"?
Why did the ECF's all teach "faith alone"?:
“Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognize the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, ‘Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven.’ All these, therefore, were highly honored, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works we have have wrought in holiness of heart, but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
- Clement, First Epistle to the Corinthians, Ch. 32 (AD 99)
“Every mystery which is enacted by our Lord Jesus Christ asks only for faith. The mystery was enacted at that time for our sake and aimed at our resurrection and liberation, should we have faith in the mystery of Christ and in Christ.”
- Marius Victorinus Epistle to the Galatians,1.3.7 (AD 356)
“Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us in righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is (or has been) justified solely by faith in Christ.”
- Basil of Caesarea, Homilia XX, Homilia De Humilitate (AD 379)
“God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins.”
- Ambrosiaster, on 1 Cor 1:14b (AD 384)
“They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.”
- Ambrosiaster, on Rom. 3:24 (AD 384)
“The patriarch Abraham himself before receiving circumcision had been declared righteous on the score of faith alone; before circumcision, the text says, Abraham believed God, and credit for it brought him to righteousness.”
- Chrysostom, Homilies on Genesis, 27.7 (AD 407)
“See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the ‘law of faith’? It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.”
- Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 7, vs. 27 (AD 407)
“For a person who had no works, to be justified by faith, was nothing unlikely. But for a person richly adorned with good deeds, not to be made just from hence, but from faith, this is the thing to cause wonder, and to set the power of faith in a strong light.”
- Chrysostom, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 8, Rom. 4:1-2 (AD 407)
“God justifies by faith alone” (“Deus ex sola fide justificat”)
- Jerome, Epestolam Ad Romanos, Caput X, v.3 (AD 420)
“What Paul meant was that no one obtains the gift of justification on the basis of merits derived from works performed beforehand, but they gift of justification comes only from faith.”
- Bede, Cited from the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture (ed. Gerald Bray), NT, vol. 11, p. 31.(AD 735)
"But in addition that you might believe also this, that sins are given to you individually, this is the testimony, which the Holy Spirit bestows in your heart, saying, Your sins are forgiven by you. For the Apostle thinks thus, that man is gratuitously justified through faith."
- Bernard of Clairvaux , First Sermon on the Annunciation (AD 1153)
“Therefore the hope of justification is not found in them [the moral and ceremonial requirements of the law], but in faith alone.”
- Thomas Aquinas, Expositio in Ep. I ad Timotheum cap. 1, lect. 3 (AD 1274)
Sigh....head shake....
The ECF did believe in a version of Faith alone. What the ECF did NOT believe, however, is the formulation of "Faith alone" as would happen at the Protestant Reformation. When Catholics say the ECF did not believe in Faith alone, what they mean is that they did not believe the Protestant doctrine.
For the ECF, Faith worked in love, Faith was joined to charity. Faith was an interior reality; a real and true participation in the righteousness of Christ.
Your translation is different than mine then.
Fine. Semantics.
If it is your position that a "living Faith" produces works, a dead Faith does not, if it is your position that works "vindicate" Faith or are "evidence of Faith" fine. I can agree with that.
The point is that even in your system, works are a necessary component of salvation.
Without works, there is no real and abiding Faith in your system. Faith is the engine that produces works. In Catholic parlance, what is happening is that "Faith is united to charity" or "Faith works in love."
One thing Protestants do not seem to understand, and your above statements proves it---is that Catholics do not believe works are "added" to Faith, nor do Catholics believe they must "add" their works to that of Christ. We aren't in competition with Christ.
According to "Roman Catholic Interpretation / Tradition" anyway.Correction, none of them do.
Fine. Whatever. The POINT is that works are a component of salvation in the life of the believer. Believers have works. Unbelievers have no works.They are 'part' of it because God doesn't grant DEAD faith....so works come naturally to those born from above.
So God is displeased with good works when done in Faith?Your church teaches works are meritorious....they aren't.
So it is not scripture that says we are saved by faith alone it is your interpretation of scripture.No, it's your faulty interpretation that is the problem.
Becasue I do not feel like putting all that work and thought into a post you will just dismiss.The above is nothing but worthless rhetoric.
You refuse to address the Scriptures I presented. Why?
Because you CAN'T.
I DID. I explained the principle governing those statements.You refuse to address the ECF quotes I provided. Why?
Because you CAN'T.
It is very different from the Protestant position. For the Protestant Faith and charity are two separate, unrelated things. Faith and charity are divorced.And since that's no different than the Protestant position (but completely contradictory to the Romanist position), I fail to see your point.
Then explain:The point is that even in your system, works are a necessary component of salvation.