Reconciled to God while enemies !

newheart78

Well-known member
This flavor of Calvinism we are watching has cast faith into the category of works. No matter what verse they read that teaches faith and works are different, they hold to the idea that faith can be a work.

Yes. Faith is a work that pleases God only after one has been Born of the Spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
 

newheart78

Well-known member
Salvation by Grace has nothing to do with a person's choosing of his own freewill, or any other work of the flesh he may do:
But strictly because God discriminately elected certain individuals to be partakers of His Grace through the Redemption that
is in Christ Jesus Rom. 3:24; and not by any conditions they can meet, nor any performance on their part.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
You've imposed that into the text. There is nothing that speaks of an act of faith as being filthy rags.

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Is 64:6

There's nothing to say there that a person cant by an act of faith reach out to receive God's grace.
An act of so called faith isn't a righteous act?

You redefining things now?
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Salvation by Grace has nothing to do with a person's choosing of his own freewill, or any other work of the flesh he may do:
But strictly because God discriminately elected certain individuals to be partakers of His Grace through the Redemption that
is in Christ Jesus Rom. 3:24; and not by any conditions they can meet, nor any performance on their part.
Amen!
 

Rockson

Well-known member
An act of so called faith isn't a righteous act?
You folks are quoting Is 64 about all of our righteousness is as filthy rags without appreciating in context it was referring in the chapters prior to Israel at the time being a nation in rebellion.....thus whatever act they thought they were doing to please God didn't.
Every act a sinner does isn't unrighteous. He doesn't look upon them as rags. “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Gal 3:6 It wasn't he was righteous.....and then believed. He believed first and it was counted then as righteousness. A lot of people did good things in scripture and God didn't call their acts rags. When Rahab spared the two spies did God look upon that as a filthy rag? I think rather he thought of it as something good. And if they have the capacity to do good things that please God like that then why should you think they don't have the t the capacity to allow God and desire for him to make them a new creation. So a faith act is a good act and yes a right act but the right act triggers the reality of salvation to be realized and imparted Sins are blotted out and now one becomes the righteousness of God in Christ.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
You folks are quoting Is 64 about all of our righteousness is as filthy rags without appreciating in context it was referring in the chapters prior to Israel at the time being a nation in rebellion.....thus whatever act they thought they were doing to please God didn't.
Which act was that?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You folks are quoting Is 64 about all of our righteousness is as filthy rags without appreciating in context it was referring in the chapters prior to Israel at the time being a nation in rebellion.....thus whatever act they thought they were doing to please God didn't.
Every act a sinner does isn't unrighteous. He doesn't look upon them as rags. “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Gal 3:6 It wasn't he was righteous.....and then believed. He believed first and it was counted then as righteousness. A lot of people did good things in scripture and God didn't call their acts rags. When Rahab spared the two spies did God look upon that as a filthy rag? I think rather he thought of it as something good. And if they have the capacity to do good things that please God like that then why should you think they don't have the t the capacity to allow God and desire for him to make them a new creation. So a faith act is a good act and yes a right act but the right act triggers the reality of salvation to be realized and imparted Sins are blotted out and now one becomes the righteousness of God in Christ.

Full on Pelagian... I'm telling you...
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Yes. Faith is a work that pleases God only after one has been Born of the Spirit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
what verse are you using that teaches faith can be called a work in any situation.
Maybe you are referring to Jesus teaching the people who wanted to do miracles?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Why not apologize? Isn't that the Christian thing to do?
Interesting comment on your part. What did you perceive that I had done which called for an apology? It seems to me that you are being caught up in the posters rhetoric. He has the habit of dodging questions and pretending he has been wronged.
But if you can specifically cite where you think I did something offensive, I will be obliged to apologize.
And please don't run me in circles over this. If you have something specific that you saw me do, please just state it and the post number.
Thanks
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
An act of so called faith isn't a righteous act?

You redefining things now?
This is a point you need to understand about Biblical truth. The Bible does not call faith a righteous act. There is nothing inherently righteous in believing. What the Bible teaches is that God counts your faith as righteousness. You could call it an exchange. God gives righteousness to those who have faith.
If you have never heard this it may seem wrong, so I would encourage you to find a scripture stating that faith is an act of righteousness.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Salvation by Grace has nothing to do with a person's choosing of his own freewill, or any other work of the flesh he may do:
But strictly because God discriminately elected certain individuals to be partakers of His Grace through the Redemption that
is in Christ Jesus Rom. 3:24; and not by any conditions they can meet, nor any performance on their part.
are you willing to challenge your assumptions? If so, find a scripture that states that choosing Christ is a work of the flesh. If you cannot find a verse like that, consider why you hold that as a truth.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Interesting comment on your part. What did you perceive that I had done which called for an apology?

Let's see...

You FALSELY claimed that I believed the "word of God" in Heb. 11 was NOT referring to Jesus.
I NEVER made any such claim.
Therefore you were BEARING FALSE WITNESS.

Then you FALSELY claimed that I believed the "word of God" in Heb. 11 WAS referring to Jesus.
I NEVER made any such claim.
Therefore you were BEARING FALSE WITNESS.

It seems to me that you are being caught up in the posters rhetoric. He has the habit of dodging questions and pretending he has been wronged.

What do you mean "dodging questions"?

When YOU make a claim that isn't true....
And then YOU are challenged for your FALSE claim.

That is NOT the time to go "phishing" for helps from others to try to defend your false claims.

But if you can specifically cite where you think I did something offensive, I will be obliged to apologize.

You made TWO false claims on an issue I was SILENT about.
You need to REPENT.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Well I believe the scripture here presented, but that didnt answer my question to you friend. You can just answer yes or no, and then give me your reason after doing so.:

, do you believe Gods elect are Justified before God solely on the merits of Christs obedience, before they are born again and come to faith in Christ ? Yes or No please
I did answer your question with Scripture. It is clear enough to understand that we are saved in Christ before the foundation of the world.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
You said a lot their friend. Let me ask you just to see if we are thinking on the same level, do you believe Gods elect are Justified before God solely on the merits of Christs obedience, before they are born again and come to faith in Christ ? Yes or No please
I believe we have to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit to believe in the Gospel. The Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of the Gospel announcement of what Christ has done, then we are saved through Faith in Christ Alone!
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I believe we have to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit to believe in the Gospel. The Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of the Gospel announcement of what Christ has done, then we are saved through Faith in Christ Alone!
regenerated before receiving Christ?
Given new life so that you can receive the life of Christ?
Where do you find these two types of life? One before Christ and one in Christ?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
la dodgers

. It is clear enough to understand that we are saved in Christ before the foundation of the world.

That is clear from scripture friend, so I take it you can support that the elect are Justified from before the foundation, right ? Before Faith !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
la dodge
I believe we have to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit to believe in the Gospel.

I agree with that, regeneration before faith

The Holy Spirit bears witness to the truth of the Gospel announcement of what Christ has done,
I agree with that !

then we are saved through Faith in Christ Alone!

Could you be more clear on this point ? Because you have stated that its clear that the elect are saved in Christ before the foundation of the world !
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
regenerated before receiving Christ?
Yes, we must be be regenerated by the Holy Spirit, before receiving Christ!
Given new life so that you can receive the life of Christ?
Being born of the Spirit, is the New Life, Seth. It's like when Christ commanded Lazarus to come forth from the tomb. So when the Gospel is preached, his sheep hear his voice and come forth by the power of the Holy Spirit, bearing to the truth of the Gospel message!
Where do you find these two types of life? One before Christ and one in Christ?
It's all one Life Seth, not two. Do you believe in or understand the Covenant of Redemption?
 
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