Reconciliation ( The wondrous "Good News" of the Gospel )

[christ_undivided]

The Gospel preached in Christianity is devoid of any and all racism.

Racism is defined as

"the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."

Contrary to Judaism, which teaches the superiority of the "Jewish" race over all others. Christianity clearly teaches that Christ reconciled the division that existed between Jews and Gentiles when He died on Mount Moriah

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

There is only ONE mediator. Only one "go between". No one has to go to some other race..... to gain access to God.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

No more aliens...... from the promises of God in Jesus Christ. The ONLY Heir of Abraham.

As much as some "Christians" would have you believe that "wall of separation" still stands.... That is nothing more than a false gospel.

Isn't it GREAT and MAGNIFICENT that noone has to bow to another race?

One of the inherent weaknesses in the modern teaching of Judaism is its very clear teaching that all races of the earth are subjected to the Jewish race. That has no place whatsoever in the teachings of the Gospel.

 

[Open Heart]

Contrary to Judaism, which teaches the superiority of the "Jewish" race over all others.

This is not true. Judaism does not teach this. Straw man alert.

 

[American Gothic]

God has the relationships God has
with whom and as God chooses

 

[tbeachhead]

This is not true. Judaism does not teach this. Straw man alert.

Really? I think perhaps you have not read Ezra 9?

1After these things had been accomplished, the leaders approached me and said, “The people of Israel, including the priests and Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the surrounding peoples whose abominations are like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians, and Amorites. 2Indeed, the Israelites have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed has been mixed with the people of the land. And the leaders and officials have taken the lead in this unfaithfulness!”

3When I heard this report, I tore my tunic and cloak, pulled out some hair from my head and beard, and sat down in horror.

4Then everyone who trembled at the words of the God of Israel gathered around me because of the unfaithfulness of the exiles, while I sat there in horror until the evening offering.

Maybe just a little error?? Denial and hope filled ignorance alert....

Oh...and then...there is Ezra 10...the rest of the story.2Then Shecaniah son of Jehiel, an Elamite, said to Ezra: “We have been unfaithful to our God by marrying foreign women from the people of the land, yet in spite of this, there is hope for Israel. 3So now let us make a covenant before our God to send away all the foreign wives and their children, according to the counsel of my lord and of those who tremble at the command of our God. Let it be done according to the Law. 4Get up, for this matter is your responsibility, and we will support you. Be strong and take action!”

5So Ezra got up and made the leading priests, Levites, and all Israel take an oath to do what had been said. And they took the oath.

The People’s Confession of Sin
6Then Ezra withdrew from before the house of God and walked to the chamber of Jehohanan son of Eliashib. And while he stayeda there, he ate no food and drank no water, because he was mourning over the unfaithfulness of the exiles.

7And a proclamation was issued throughout Judah and Jerusalem that all the exiles should gather at Jerusalem. 8Whoever failed to appear within three days would forfeit all his property, according to the counsel of the leaders and elders, and would himself be expelled from the assembly of the exiles.

9So within the three days, all the men of Judah and Benjamin assembled in Jerusalem, and on the twentieth day of the ninth month, all the people sat in the square at the house of God, trembling regarding this matter and because of the heavy rain.

10Then Ezra the priest stood up and said to them, “You have been unfaithful by marrying foreign women, adding to the guilt of Israel. 11Now, therefore, make a confession to the LORD, the God of your fathers, and do His will. Separate yourselves from the people of the land and from your foreign wives.”

12And the whole assembly responded in a loud voice: “Truly we must do as you say! 13But there are many people here, and it is the rainy season. We are not able to stay out in the open. Nor is this the work of one or two days, for we have transgressed greatly in this matter. 14Let our leaders represent the whole assembly. Then let everyone in our towns who has married a foreign woman come at an appointed time, together with the elders and judges of each town, until the fierce anger of our God in this matter is turned away from us.”

15(Only Jonathan son of Asahel and Jahzeiah son of Tikvah, supported by Meshullam and Shabbethai the Levite, opposed this plan.)

16So the exiles did as proposed. Ezra the priest selected men who were family heads, each of them identified by name, to represent their families. On the first day of the tenth month they launched the investigation, 17and by the first day of the first month they had dealt with all the men who had married foreign women.

I don't know...pretty much defines racism, don't you think? Or do you have another definition?

Or...wait....wait...wait...Ezra does not represent "TRUE" Judaism, because the Law and the Temple mattered literally and were not open to interpretation as they must be today with neither priest nor temple?

 

[christ_undivided]

This is not true. Judaism does not teach this. Straw man alert.

Isa 49:22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
Isa 49:23 And kings shall be thy nursing fathers, and their queens thy nursing mothers: they shall bow down to thee with their face toward the earth, and lick up the dust of thy feet; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD: for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me.

Judaism teaches Isaiah 49:22/23 speak of the Jewish race.

As Christians, we know these verses speak of Jesus Christ. King of Kings. Lord of Lords.

 

[christ_undivided]

God has the relationships God has
with whom and as God chooses

Which relationship is most important to God? There is RANK involved. God comes first.

When it comes to ordinary men, there is no race above another. All mankind is equal in access and relationship.

Why do you insist that one race must bow to another race?

 

[Jewjitzu]

Really? I think perhaps you have not read Ezra 9?

I think you're being asinine.

1After these things had been accomplished, the leaders approached me and said, “The people of Israel, including the priests and Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the surrounding peoples whose abominations are like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians, and Amorites. 2Indeed, the Israelites have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed has been mixed with the people of the land. And the leaders and officials have taken the lead in this unfaithfulness!”

If you really read and understood the motives for not marrying foreigners, it is the foreign gods. Not racism.

Deut 7:1-8
When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and He drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you to defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy.

Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, because they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and He will swiftly destroy you.

Instead, this is what you are to do to them: tear down their altars, smash their sacred pillars, cut down their Asherah poles, and burn their idols in the fire. For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His prized possession out of all peoples on the face of the earth.

The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

 

[Jewjitzu]

The Gospel preached in Christianity is devoid of any and all racism.

Racism is defined as

"the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another."

Contrary to Judaism, which teaches the superiority of the "Jewish" race over all others. Christianity clearly teaches that Christ reconciled the division that existed between Jews and Gentiles when He died on Mount Moriah

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility
Eph 2:15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,
Eph 2:16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
Eph 2:17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.

There is only ONE mediator. Only one "go between". No one has to go to some other race..... to gain access to God.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.
Eph 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

No more aliens...... from the promises of God in Jesus Christ. The ONLY Heir of Abraham.

As much as some "Christians" would have you believe that "wall of separation" still stands.... That is nothing more than a false gospel.

Isn't it GREAT and MAGNIFICENT that noone has to bow to another race?

One of the inherent weaknesses in the modern teaching of Judaism is its very clear teaching that all races of the earth are subjected to the Jewish race. That has no place whatsoever in the teachings of the Gospel.

Why the falsehood? Do you not know that Messiah descends from Ammonites and Moabites, from converts to Judaism? Have you not seen that Jews come from all races?

 

[tbeachhead]

I think you're being asinine.


If you really read and understood the motives for not marrying foreigners, it is the foreign gods. Not racism.

Deut 7:1-8
When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are entering to possess, and He drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you— and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you to defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy.

Do not intermarry with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their daughters for your sons, because they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and He will swiftly destroy you.

Instead, this is what you are to do to them: tear down their altars, smash their sacred pillars, cut down their Asherah poles, and burn their idols in the fire. For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His prized possession out of all peoples on the face of the earth.

The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your fathers, He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

This is a fascinating answer. Thanks.

Answer, then, the time old question: Jewish. Is it race? Or religion? When the Children of Israel went into the land to cleanse the land completely of Girgashites, Amorites, Parasites, Hypocrites and Canaanites, men, women, children and cattle...was it ethnic cleansing? Or religion cleansing?

Prove your answer. And tell me how you think Judaism today compares to the Judaism that conquered the land.

 

[American Gothic]

in relationship with God -
there can be the relationship of Mankind
there can be the relationship of an elect people group/Nation
there can be the relationship of Believers as a group
there can be relationship of individual Believer

Biblical prophecy does not center on the Norwegians
or on the lands of the children of Japheth
nor is anyone "brought near" to them, as they are not the holders of Covenant promises

 

[American Gothic]

God is gracious on and uses
Whom God chooses
when and how
God chooses

 

[Jewjitzu]

This is a fascinating answer. Thanks.

It debunks your antisemitic answer. At least admit that.

Answer, then, the time old question: Jewish. Is it race? Or religion?

It is all of the above. Anyone adhering to the covenant is adopted into the nation, as was Moses' wife, Ruth, etc.

When the Children of Israel went into the land to cleanse the land completely of Girgashites, Amorites, Parasites, Hypocrites and Canaanites, men, women, children and cattle...was it ethnic cleansing? Or religion cleansing?

It was commanded by God so why does it matter? The fact remains that God didnt want the influence of foreign gods on Israel.

Prove your answer. And tell me how you think Judaism today compares to the Judaism that conquered the land.

Judaism is still required to follow the law. That hasn't changed. What has are the influences and foreign beliefs that weren't part of Torah as a result of living in foreign lands, gods our fathers didnt know including the trinity, etc.

 

[tbeachhead]

It debunks your antisemitic answer. At least admit that.

It opens up the rest of the questions.

My answer is not antisemitic. Why would you say that? My answer is historically accurate, as was yours. Technically, yours was more accurate and stronger. (To talk about "racism" where Moab must be kept out of Israel for ten generations, cannot be honest without Ruth, the Moabitess grandmother to King David, and,, with the Canaanitess Rahab, ancestor to your Messiah.) Sometimes honesty demands presenting the case, which was my purpose.

It is all of the above. Anyone adhering to the covenant is adopted into the nation, as was Moses' wife, Ruth, etc.

This, too, is a very good answer. Few have been able to address the question with balance. What you've done is strip the indictment of racism of any teeth. We don't suffer from "racism" in America. Our issue is purely pigmentationist...which, to me, is the epitome of deliberate ignorance and unkindness based on laziness.

It was commanded by God so why does it matter? The fact remains that God didnt want the influence of foreign gods on Israel.

It matters because the excessive pride, fulness of bread and abundance of idleness of Sodom has returned and we have stopped caring for the poor and the needy. Where would we stand if Joshua's army came here? I think like th is.

Judaism is still required to follow the law. That hasn't changed. What has are the influences and foreign beliefs that weren't part of Torah as a result of living in foreign lands, gods our fathers didnt know including the trinity, etc.

Well...you've got a smörgåsbord, don't you, to pick and choose from. Each form of Judaism sets its own standards, and everyone does what seems right in his own eyes, like in the days of the judges without the Judge. No priest, no tabernacle and no ark, you can pretty much make up what is good and what the Lord desires of you. I can say, "I obey the Law" as long as I also make the Law...sometimes conveniently with a group of folks who agree with me.

 

[Jewjitzu]

It opens up the rest of the questions.

My answer is not antisemitic. Why would you say that? My answer is historically accurate, as was yours. Technically, yours was more accurate and stronger. (To talk about "racism" where Moab must be kept out of Israel for ten generations, cannot be honest without Ruth, the Moabitess grandmother to King David, and,, with the Canaanitess Rahab, ancestor to your Messiah.) Sometimes honesty demands presenting the case, which was my purpose.

No, your purpose was to emphasize racism, which wasn't the case. If you already knew the answer based on your own studies, you shouldn't have posted it.

This, too, is a very good answer. Few have been able to address the question with balance. What you've done is strip the indictment of racism of any teeth. We don't suffer from "racism" in America. Our issue is purely pigmentationist...which, to me, is the epitome of deliberate ignorance and unkindness based on laziness.

But you knew this already. Why stir the pot?

It matters because the excessive pride, fulness of bread and abundance of idleness of Sodom has returned and we have stopped caring for the poor and the needy. Where would we stand if Joshua's army came here? I think like th is.

No it doesn't. God commanded it, that settles it.

Well...you've got a smörgåsbord, don't you, to pick and choose from. Each form of Judaism sets its own standards, and everyone does what seems right in his own eyes, like in the days of the judges without the Judge.

There's only one Orthodoxy. For sure Christianity sets its own standards as they feel the spirit guides them.

No priest, no tabernacle and no ark, you can pretty much make up what is good and what the Lord desires of you. I can say, "I obey the Law" as long as I also make the Law...sometimes conveniently with a group of folks who agree with me.

And this was prophesied as well, but the law is still followed as Daniel did, Hosea 3:4.

 

[Open Heart]

This is a fascinating answer. Thanks.

Answer, then, the time old question: Jewish. Is it race? Or religion? When the Children of Israel went into the land to cleanse the land completely of Girgashites, Amorites, Parasites, Hypocrites and Canaanites, men, women, children and cattle...was it ethnic cleansing? Or religion cleansing?

Prove your answer. And tell me how you think Judaism today compares to the Judaism that conquered the land.

OMGosh. How many times must we answer this question before you guys learn? One more time...

Jews are a tribal people. Not a race. (There is no such thing as race.) Not a religion. But a PEOPLE. Like like the Lakota. Like the Zulu. I realize that makes it difficult for you, since modern western culture lacks a "box" for Peoples. The only way you are going to be able to understand who the Jews are is to create a new kind of category in your mind for this. Just like with the Lakota or the Zulu, the easiest way to be a Jew is to be born one, in our case meaning to be born of a Jewish mom. But it is not the only way. There are very rare cases where someone is adopted into a tribe. Think of Dances with Wolves, and how he became Lakota. In the same way, Jews have a means via formal conversion for an outsider to become a Jew. "Your people shall be my people, and your God shall be my God."

Now, how long is it going to be before you pretend I haven't explained this to you?

 

[tbeachhead]

OMGosh. How many times must we answer this question before you guys learn? One more time...

Jews are a tribal people. Not a race.

You don't understand the term, and if you think this statement is an answer, you do not have a clue how the term is used in modern languages...I've only studied ten. You need to see Jewjitzu's answer. He understood my question much better.

(There is no such thing as race.)

This is error, pure and simple...and it's a silly claim. Race lays claim to descendance. A Hebrew descends from Eber. Children of Abraham includes Isaac and Ishmael...and you can connect the sons of the concubine. Israel can rightly be said to have fathered a race with twelve tribes. This is the meaning of the term. Genealogies mattered right up to Jesus' resurrection, and then you lost them.

Not a religion.

If you're claiming that there is NO connection to Israel and Tanakh, you're denying your own claims to belonging.

But a PEOPLE. Like like the Lakota. Like the Zulu. I realize that makes it difficult for you, since modern western culture lacks a "box" for Peoples. The only way you are going to be able to understand who the Jews are is to create a new kind of category in your mind for this. Just like with the Lakota or the Zulu, the easiest way to be a Jew is to be born one, in our case meaning to be born of a Jewish mom. But it is not the only way. There are very rare cases where someone is adopted into a tribe. Think of Dances with Wolves, and how he became Lakota. In the same way, Jews have a means via formal conversion for an outsider to become a Jew. "Your people shall be my people, and your God shall be my God."

your claim is bereft of all Law. It's like a 21st century "man's" claim to womanhood by virtue of a contract with Nike and a sports bra.

Now, how long is it going to be before you pretend I haven't explained this to you?

I can see that you've satisfied your own demand for legitimacy. This is clearly right in your eyes, although there is nothing of this at all in the Tenakh.

 

[Open Heart]

You don't understand the term, and if you think this statement is an answer, you do not have a clue how the term is used in modern languages...I've only studied ten. You need to see Jewjitzu's answer. He understood my question much better.

It has nothing to do with "modern languages." Jews decide who Jews are. We know ourselves to be a PEOPLE. NOT a race. NOT a relilgion. We don't fit into either of those two boxes.

This is error, pure and simple...and it's a silly claim. Race lays claim to descendance. A Hebrew descends from Eber. Children of Abraham includes Isaac and Ishmael...and you can connect the sons of the concubine. Israel can rightly be said to have fathered a race with twelve tribes. This is the meaning of the term. Genealogies mattered right up to Jesus' resurrection, and then you lost them.

The idea of race is that there are distinct boundaries between different groups of people demarkated by genetic traits. Science has determined that race doesn't really objectively exist, since there are NO such boundaries in reality. Race thus becomes nothing more than a societal construct. Thus most sensible people have shifted to the word, "ethnicity" which is honest about being a societal construct. Again, race is not objectively real--it is nothing more than a human invented classification system.

If you're claiming that there is NO connection to Israel and Tanakh, you're denying your own claims to belonging.

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

your claim is bereft of all Law. It's like a 21st century "man's" claim to womanhood by virtue of a contract with Nike and a sports bra.

My claim is Biblcial -- over and over again, the Bible refers to the PEOPLE of Israel. You need a box for Peoples (tribes). The Bible explicitely talks about the People of Israel being twelve related tribes, and documents the origins of these tribes, and of the People of Israel.

Nothing to do with the whole transgender thing. Please stay on point.

My point is not bereft of Law, indeed it is EXACTLY what Jewish law is -- that a Jew is anyone born of a Jewish mom, or who has made a formal conversion to Israel, meaning they are adopted into the People.

What does that mean? It means for example, that someone who is born of a Jewish mom but a gentile dad, is 100% Jew. Whereas someone who is born of a Jewish dad and a gentile mom is 0% Jew. It means that someone who has undergone conversion is 100% Jew, but a Christian who claims to be grafted in is 0% Jew. It means that most Jews may practice Judaism of one sort or another, but SOME Jews are not religious, are even atheists. Indeed, some Jews are completely apostate, meaning they have converted to another religion such as Christianity.

I can see that you've satisfied your own demand for legitimacy. This is clearly right in your eyes, although there is nothing of this at all in the Tenakh.

Well being as how my idea was to become a Jew, I of COURSE have been concerned with what Halakha (Jewish law) has to say. I'm not interested in what non-Jewish sources might say, or what the opinion of a person in an internet forum is. Since I am a Jew according to Halakha, that is the only thing that matters.

 

[christ_undivided]

OMGosh. How many times must we answer this question before you guys learn? One more time...

Jews are a tribal people. Not a race. (There is no such thing as race.) Not a religion. But a PEOPLE.

Self delusion.

Definition of race....

Race is a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society.

 

[Open Heart]

Self delusion.

Definition of race....

Race is a categorization of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into groups generally viewed as distinct within a given society.

Good definition. This doesn't exist in biology. It is a societal construct.

 

[christ_undivided]

Good definition. This doesn't exist in biology. It is a societal construct.

So it is a race?

You can't claim biology now because your INTERMARRIED for 3 MILLENIAS.....

Don't ignore the fact your OT distincts are based upon BIOLOGY.....