Reduce Ukraine Rubble vs. End the War - Preference?

Thistle

Well-known member
They will kill Putin before there is a nuclear launch....book it.
Have you seen any of the most recent video coming out of Russia. Putin's "closest advisers" are at the far end of a 60 yard long table. How do you propose "they're going to kill Putin?" Saddam Hussein's "closest advisers" didn't manage to kill him before we pulled him out of a foxhole by the nap of his neck. If Iraq had, had Russia's nuclear capability none of us would be alive.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
Have you seen any of the most recent video coming out of Russia. Putin's "closest advisers" are at the far end of a 60 yard long table. How do you propose "they're going to kill Putin?" Saddam Hussein's "closest advisers" didn't manage to kill him before we pulled him out of a foxhole by the nap of his neck. If Iraq had, had Russia's nuclear capability none of us would be alive.
There is a protocol in Russia that all have to be on board before nuclear strike. They won't. Putin has to eat for one and a coup d'etat will happen if he calls for nuclear strikes.

No long before the authoritarian tyrant is removed from power. He has shown the world that Russia is a paper tiger. Worthless leadership.
 

cjab

Well-known member

Igor Girkin: It's meaningless to hope for victory'​


Russia has virtually no hope of winning its war in Ukraine even if it manages to seize the whole of Donbas in the coming weeks, a former spy and commander who was instrumental in starting the original conflict has said.

Igor Girkin - who goes by the nom-de-guerre Igor Strelkov, meaning 'shooter' - has given a withering assessment of Putin's war effort, saying that Russian units are suffering 'huge losses' by 'banging their heads against' deeply entrenched Ukrainian troops, and are being led by commanders who 'leave much to be desired.'

Despite Russia making piecemeal gains on the Donbas front in recent days - capturing towns around Popansa and pushing to encircle Severodonetsk - Strelkov says Ukraine is fast-mobilising new troops, rearming using Western weapons, and digging into new defensive positions that will be hard to overrun.

It is 'meaningless to hope for victory' without a general mobilisation of Russia's army, Strelkov argues, which Putin refuses to do because he is being molly-coddled by his inner circle into believing victory is still possible. As long he remains shielded from reality 'nothing will change, and when it does change... it will be too late to do anything.'

Once the Russian offensive grinds to a halt - something Strelkov predicts could happen as soon as mid-June - Ukraine will then switch to counter attacks as it did around Kyiv and Kharkiv, forcing Putin's commanders on to the back foot and likely pushing their badly-mauled units backwards - perhaps to their own borders.

But even if no counter-attacks come, Russia will be faced with the prospect of trying to hold a long front line against well-armed and newly-reinforced Ukrainian defenders who will refuse to give up the fight, all the while Russia's economy will flatline under sanctions.

 

Thistle

Well-known member
There is a protocol in Russia that all have to be on board before nuclear strike. They won't. Putin has to eat for one and a coup d'etat will happen if he calls for nuclear strikes.

No long before the authoritarian tyrant is removed from power. He has shown the world that Russia is a paper tiger. Worthless leadership.
And you're willing to bet the lives of every living breathing human being on planet earth and any that might otherwise be born in the future on your judgment in this matter? Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not.
 

Reepicheep

Well-known member
And you're willing to bet the lives of every living breathing human being on planet earth and any that might otherwise be born in the future on your judgment in this matter? Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not.
Is your support for Putin in this war absolute and unconditional???

In the past, you have posted that you were in favour of Albania, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China, Columbia, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Liechtenstein, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Malta, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, North Macedonia, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, San Marino, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, Turkmenistan, the United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, the United States, Uzbekistan, Vatican City, and Vietnam supplying Ukraine with aid. Have you changed your mind?
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
And you're willing to bet the lives of every living breathing human being on planet earth and any that might otherwise be born in the future on your judgment in this matter? Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not.
Reality is sometimes not impressive. And don't sweat it heaven is the ultimate reward is it not? Do not lay up treasure here where moth can destroy it but instead lay up treasure in heaven.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Reality is sometimes not impressive. And don't sweat it heaven is the ultimate reward is it not? Do not lay up treasure here where moth can destroy it but instead lay up treasure in heaven.
The existence of heaven is not a reason to risk blowing up everybody on planet earth.
 

Carol

Well-known member
Pursue peace with all people, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12)

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peace-loving, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, free of hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3)

"Blessed are the peacemakers...."

May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
If it does happen I am sure it is God's plan.
I'm not sure that that sufficiently different from fatalism to suit me. We're not subjects of a divine right sovereign. We're citizens of a republican democracy. How we feel about important issues of state really does matter to the policy of the federal government when the system is operating as intended. As citizens rather than subjects I think we've got an obligation to speak up.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Pursue peace with all people, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. (Hebrews 12)

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peace-loving, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, free of hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. (James 3)

"Blessed are the peacemakers...."

May mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
A soft answer turns away wrath. Bless you for a while appointed word…
 

cjab

Well-known member
"Blessed are the peacemakers...."
Not all Russians are for war.

A senior Russian diplomat has resigned over the “bloody, witless and absolutely needless” war in Ukraine as he criticised figures within the Kremlin who want “to remain in power forever”.

Boris Bondarev, a counsellor for the Russian mission at the United Nations in Geneva, said he had had enough of the “lies and unprofessionalism” in the country’s foreign ministry.

In an excoriating resignation letter, he said the war launched by President Putin was a “crime against the Ukrainian people” that would ruin the Russian economy as well as “all hopes and prospects for a prosperous free society”.

“For 20 years of my diplomatic career I have seen different runs of our foreign policy, but never have I been so ashamed of my country as on February 24 of this year,” he said.

“The aggressive war unleashed by Putin against Ukraine, and in fact against the entire western world, is not only a crime against the Ukrainian people, but also, perhaps, the most serious crime against the people of Russia, with a bold letter Z crossing out all hopes and prospects for a prosperous free society in our country.”

“Those who conceived this war want only one thing — to remain in power for ever, live in pompous tasteless palaces, sail on yachts comparable in tonnage and cost to the entire Russian navy, enjoying unlimited power and complete impunity.

“To achieve that, they are willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes. Thousands of Russians and Ukrainians have already died just for this.”

“Minister Lavrov is a good illustration of the degradation of this system. In 18 years, he went from a professional and educated intellectual, whom many of my colleagues held in such high esteem, to a person who constantly broadcasts conflicting statements and threatens the world with nuclear weapons!

“Today the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is not about diplomacy. It is all about warmongering, lies and hatred. It serves the interests of few, the very few people thus contributing to further isolation and degradation of my country. Russia no longer has allies, and there is no one to blame but its reckless and ill-conceived policy.

“I studied to be a diplomat and have been a diplomat for 20 years. The ministry has become my home and family. But I simply cannot any longer share in this bloody, witless and absolutely needless ignominy.”
__________________________________
Bondarev told the Associated Press today: “It is intolerable what my government is doing now. As a civil servant, I have to carry a share of responsibility for that, and I don’t want to do that.”

He said he had not received any reaction yet from Russian officials, but added: “Am I concerned about the possible reaction from Moscow? I have to be concerned about it.”

Asked if some colleagues felt the same, he added: “Not all Russian diplomats are warmongering. They are reasonable, but they have to keep their mouths shut.”

He suggested his case could become an example. “If my case is prosecuted, then if other people want to follow, they would not,” he said.

Hillel Neuer, the director of the Swiss non-governmental organisation UN Watch, said: “Boris Bondarev is a hero. We are now calling on all other Russian diplomats at the United Nations — and worldwide — to follow his moral example and resign.”

“Bondarev should be invited to speak in Davos this week,” Neuer added, “and the US, the UK and the EU should lead the free world in creating a programme to encourage more Russian diplomats to follow and defect, by providing protection, financial security and resettlement for diplomats and their families.”
 
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