Reducing God to the truth and reality.

Nouveau

Well-known member
No, that's just you contradicting what I said and not me contradicting myself silly.
Okay, so God exists, but he doesn't exist inside your mind and he doesn't exist outside of it either. Do I have that much correct?

You are strawmanning, because It is ONLY YOU here who is pretending that minds have to be inside one another to know and experience the same truth and reality. This is how minds share the same truth and reality: Minds share the SAME truth and reality by believing the same truth and experiencing the same reality. We don't have to be in one another's minds to experience the same truth and reality.
I think you're strawmanning me. I never said that minds have to be inside of each other. I'm just asking you where God exists, if neither inside nor outside of your mind. Why can't you answer?

Everything you have said here is a strawman. Deal with what's being said to you instead of evading silly.
I didn't make any claims there, so I don't see how I could be strawmanning you. I merely presented three propositions and asked you whether each one is true or false. Are you evading because you are a dishonest person, or because you don't understand what you are being asked? I can rephrase them as simple Y/N questions if that helps.

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)
3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
 

Tercon

Well-known member
According to you, God can only exist in a mind.

Everything including the truth and reality can ONLY be known to exist and occur in a believing mind silly.

You can't answer Nouveau's question because you don't want to admit you were wrong.

The monkey man's question is irrelevant and inapplicable, because it is meant to lead away from the truth and reality, rather than to it.

I'm sure Jesus appreciates your heartfelt humility...

Actually he does, because I know Him personally, since we share the same truth and reality.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Okay, so God exists, but he doesn't exist inside your mind and he doesn't exist outside of it either. Do I have that much correct? I think you're strawmanning me. I never said that minds have to be inside of each other. I'm just asking you where God exists, if neither inside nor outside of your mind. Why can't you answer?

You are reificating a believing mind and pretending that a believing mind is like a concrete object, but that's not how a believing mind works. Believing minds don't have to exist inside one another in order to know and experience the same truth and reality. Rather, if different minds share the same belief; then they get to know and experience the same truth and reality. So, when you pretend I haven't or can't answer your question that there is no way for minds to know and experience the same truth and reality, then that's a strawman, because there clearly is a way that the same truth and reality can be known, experienced and shared; it's called belief.

I didn't make any claims there, so I don't see how I could be strawmanning you. I merely presented three propositions and asked you whether each one is true or false. Are you evading because you are a dishonest person, or because you don't understand what you are being asked? I can rephrase them as simple Y/N questions if that helps.

You are strawmanning because you are misrepresenting what I believe about how the truth and a believing mind works to make reality known.

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

Reality is a product of God's believing mind. And like the truth and reality belief too can only be known and experienced in and by a mind, because outside of a believing mind nothing is knowable or experienceable, not even physicality.

2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)

Believing minds can share the same truth by just having the same beliefs in reality.

3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

That's not how the truth and reality works.
Believers only get to share and partake in God's truth and reality when they have, share and believe as Christ does. Christian faith is just the beliefs in the truth and reality God that the believer shares with Christ.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
You are reificating a believing mind and pretending that a believing mind is like a concrete object, but that's not how a believing mind works. Believing minds don't have to exist inside one another in order to know and experience the same truth and reality. Rather, if different minds share the same belief; then they get to know and experience the same truth and reality. So, when you pretend I haven't or can't answer your question that there is no way for minds to know and experience the same truth and reality, then that's a strawman, because there clearly is a way that the same truth and reality can be known, experienced and shared; it's called belief.
I'm not 'reificating' anything. You've also misrepresented my question. Again, are you saying that God does not exist either inside or outside of your mind?

You are strawmanning because you are misrepresenting what I believe about how the truth and a believing mind works to make reality known.
No I'm not. Stop making excuses for your dishonest evasion.

Reality is a product of God's believing mind. And like the truth and reality belief too can only be known and experienced in and by a mind, because outside of a believing mind nothing is knowable or experienceable, not even physicality.

Believing minds can share the same truth by just having the same beliefs in reality.

That's not how the truth and reality works.
Believers only get to share and partake in God's truth and reality when they have, share and believe as Christ does. Christian faith is just the beliefs in the truth and reality God that the believer shares with Christ.
You didn't answer anything that was asked. Is that because you didn't understand the questions, or because you are a fundamentally dishonest person? Try again:

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)
3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I'm not 'reificating' anything. You've also misrepresented my question. Again, are you saying that God does not exist either inside or outside of your mind?

Sure you are. You are pretending that the truth and reality is knowable and occurable outside of a believing mind, when nothing can be known to exist or occur outside of a believing mind silly.

No I'm not. Stop making excuses for your dishonest evasion.

Yes you are. If not, then tell me how anything is known to exist or occur outside of a believing mind silly?

You didn't answer anything that was asked. Is that because you didn't understand the questions, or because you are a fundamentally dishonest
person? Try again:

I done better than that, I actually refuted your misleading loaded questions that lead away from how the truth and reality is known. You hide from the truth and reality, you can either face it on this side of eternity and let it correct you here. Or you will face it on the other side of eternity, when it is too late.

That's what you tell yourself to hide from the truth and reality of God.

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

Reality is a product of God's believing mind. And like the truth and reality belief too can only be known and experienced in and by a mind, because outside of a believing mind nothing is knowable or experienceable, not even physicality.

2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)

Believing minds can share the same truth by just having the same beliefs in reality.

3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

That's not how the truth and reality works.
Believers only get to share and partake in God's truth and reality when they have, share and believe as Christ does. Christian faith is just the beliefs in the truth and reality God that the believer shares with Christ.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Sure you are. You are pretending that the truth and reality is knowable and occurable outside of a believing mind, when nothing can be known to exist or occur outside of a believing mind silly.
I'm not doing any of that. I'm simply asking if what you are saying is that God doesn't exist inside your mind and doesn't exist outside of it either. Is that what you are saying? Why would you refuse to clarify your position?

I done better than that, I actually refuted your misleading loaded questions...
You're still making excuses. My questions were not loaded, nor did you make any effort to show that they were. Try again. Try being honest for once.

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)
3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I'm not doing any of that. I'm simply asking if what you are saying is that God doesn't exist inside your mind and doesn't exist outside of it either. Is that what you are saying? Why would you refuse to clarify your position?

Strawman, I have clarified, but you keep trying to poison the well and conceal how different minds can share the same truth and reality by just having and sharing the same belief. You do this in order to keep the truth and reality of God hidden from yourself.

You're still making excuses. My questions were not loaded, nor did you make any effort to show that they were. Try again. Try being honest for once.

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)
3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

Sure they are loaded, because you are pretending that minds have to be inside of one another in order to share the same knowledge of the truth and reality. When in reality all minds have to do to share the same reality is to share the same beliefs.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
It's not even a word, Tercon. Things like this are why people ask if English is your first language.

Your opinion in this discussion is irrelevant and inapplicable, because you have given up the only way and means by which the truth and reality is known. So you have nothing to offer in regards to reality, you have denied yourself the means to even know it.

Now it is, because from now on when you see someone use the word "reificating", you will know that it just means a verb form that is used for present participle of reification.

"-ing is a suffix used to make one of the inflected forms of English verbs. This verb form is used as a present participle, as a gerund, and sometimes as an independent noun or adjective."
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Yours has been for more than a decade here, and yet you still keep talking.

I am still talking because I know how and why the truth and reality is known to me.
But unbelievers disbelieve that belief has the capacity to make the truth known to themselves, so they are ignorant of how a why the truth and reality is known.

Reificate isn't a word either, foreigner.
Here is one for you; Reification seems to be inherent in its Marxists.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Your opinion in this discussion is irrelevant and inapplicable, because you have given up the only way and means by which the truth and reality is known. So you have nothing to offer in regards to reality, you have denied yourself the means to even know it.

Now it is, because from now on when you see someone use the word "reificating", you will know that it just means a verb form that is used for present participle of reification.

"-ing is a suffix used to make one of the inflected forms of English verbs. This verb form is used as a present participle, as a gerund, and sometimes as an independent noun or adjective."
Incorrect. Here are some actual words: reify, reification, reifying.

Here is a non-word that you made up: reificating.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Strawman, I have clarified, but you keep trying to poison the well and conceal how different minds can share the same truth and reality by just having and sharing the same belief. You do this in order to keep the truth and reality of God hidden from yourself.
You have not clarified. You keep trying to change the subject instead. I'm not asking about how different minds share truth and realty. I'm asking about the location of God with respect to your mind, and you keep contradicting yourself and then refusing to clarify.

Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No]
Does God exist outside of your mind? [Yes or No]

Sure they are loaded, because you are pretending that minds have to be inside of one another in order to share the same knowledge of the truth and reality. When in reality all minds have to do to share the same reality is to share the same beliefs.
That's a strawman. My questions do not say or assume anything about how knowledge is shared. They don't even mention knowledge at all. So you have failed to show the questions to be loaded, and are instead just dishonestly evading them. Try again:

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)
3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
 

Tercon

Well-known member
You have not clarified. You keep trying to change the subject instead. I'm not asking about how different minds share truth and realty. I'm asking about the location of God with respect to your mind, and you keep contradicting yourself and then refusing to clarify.

If we can share the same truth and reality by sharing the same beliefs, then God can share His thoughts and mind when we believe as He believes in sharing His beliefs.

Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No]

The Spirit of truth exists in the believer's mind, He influence what believers believe. So, when believers have a belief in reality, they get to share His Spirit and Mind too.

Does God exist outside of your mind? [Yes or No]

God's truth and reality can be known to exist in anyone who believes.

That's a strawman. My questions do not say or assume anything about how knowledge is shared. They don't even mention knowledge at all. So you have failed to show the questions to be loaded, and are instead just dishonestly evading them. Try again:

1. Is reality contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

Yes. The truth and reality are belief based, because they require and entail a believing mind in order to be known to exist and occur.

2. Is your mind contained within reality? (Y/N)

Yes. When I believe as Christ believes I get to share and participate in His reality.

3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

It's a strawman because you are pretending that minds are like concrete objects, you are reifying a believing mind and pretending that believing minds work like physical objects. FYI, they don't. And you are conflating a brain and a believing mind.

Believers exist in God's truth and reality (aka His Kingdom) when they believe in the same way Christ believes. The believer embraces the truth as Christ did and God's Spirit of truth comes alive in the believer. The believer then gets to share in what God believes.

The truth, logic, consciousness, existence and reality itself are not physical in nature. These are all mental abstracts that require and entail a believing mind in order to be known to occur and exist.
That's why scientists can't get past the requirement and entailment of "observation" and "measurement" in QM, it is because WFC and entanglement requires and entails a way and place for it to occur. And the only thing capable of hosting WFC and entanglement is a believing mind.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
If we can share the same truth and reality by sharing the same beliefs, then God can share His thoughts and mind when we believe as He believes in sharing His beliefs.
What does that have to do with the location of God?

The Spirit of truth exists in the believer's mind, He influence what believers believe. So, when believers have a belief in reality, they get to share His Spirit and Mind too.
Does that mean God does, or does not, exist inside your mind?

God's truth and reality can be known to exist in anyone who believes.
Does that mean God does, or does not, exist outside of your mind?

Yes. The truth and reality are belief based, because they require and entail a believing mind in order to be known to exist and occur.
Great, so reality exists inside God's mind...

Yes. When I believe as Christ believes I get to share and participate in His reality.
...and you exist in that reality (which is inside God's mind).

So can you put two and two together to work out where you exist with respect to God's mind?

It's a strawman...
Oh dear! You were so close! Still 2 out of 3 is your best effort yet, so well done on nearly being honest enough to answer all three questions. You've got just one more to go. Give it your best shot!

3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)
 

Tercon

Well-known member
What does that have to do with the location of God?
Does that mean God does, or does not, exist inside your mind?

That's where we are all are known to exist silly, there is no other way or place that possesses the capacity of a believing mind to make our existence known to us. And if there was, then you would have said what that other way and place is.

Does that mean God does, or does not, exist outside of your mind?

His truth and reality is known to exist and occur in a believer's mind, because the believer believes in His truth and reality.

Great, so reality exists inside God's mind...

Yes. The truth and reality originates in God's believing mind, because outside of a believing mind the truth and reality can't be known to exist or occur.

...and you exist in that reality (which is inside God's mind).

Yes, if reality can only be known to exist and occur in a believing mind; then His reality exists and occurs in His believing mind. I think at this point the believer is just along for the ride and it is just His believing mind that is the basis of the truth and reality.

So can you put two and two together to work out where you exist with respect to God's mind?
Oh dear! You were so close! Still 2 out of 3 is your best effort yet, so well done on nearly being honest enough to answer all three questions. You've got just one more to go. Give it your best shot!

3. Is your mind contained within God's mind? (Y/N)

I can do better than that, I can put billions and billions together believing in the same way and Thing, and all getting and coming to the same knowledge and experiencing the same truth and reality at the same time. That's the power of the truth and reality working in and with belief and a believing mind. And nothing else is capable of that feat.
 
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