Reducing God to the truth and reality.

Nouveau

Well-known member
Strawman and projection. I didn't argue "2+2 equals 5" silly. And suggesting I did is a strawman. And you are doing just that right here by attributing such positions as "2+2=5" to me. You're strawmanning.
I did not suggest that you argued 2+2=5. I did not attribute that position to you. All I did was explain the difference between strawmanning and disagreement, as you consistently get this wrong, as you've done again here.

All truth and reality are ONLY known to exist and occur with and inside a believing mind.
Please just try to answer the question asked:

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No?]

Strawman. I share God's beliefs. The contents of minds are beliefs.
So, if different people can know one another's mind by just sharing the same beliefs, then minds can share the same content and experience the same thing by sharing the same beliefs.
So your diagram (with your mind inside God's mind) didn't show containment? That means you didn't draw what was asked for. I asked you to draw a Venn diagram showing location and containment, not of beliefs, but of the actual things themselves, as your answers on this were contradictory. You said reality is contained within God's mind, and that your mind is contained within reality, but denied that your mind is contained within God's mind. Please draw a new Venn diagram showing how these three can all be true, showing location and containment (not of beliefs but) of God, reality, and your own mind.

Strawman and projection.
I'm afraid it's neither. You said that your mind is contained within reality, that reality is contained within God's mind, and that God's mind exists outside of your mind. From this it follows that your mind exists outside of your own mind. You've told me that you are literally out of your own mind. Or can you draw another Venn diagram showing otherwise?

Strawman and projection. No actually you're just talking about something (QM) that you don't know how to interpret, because your unbelief and materialism won't allow you to interpret it correctly.
I didn't even mention QM, and neither did you. Have you been confused by your own word salad?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I did not suggest that you argued 2+2=5. I did not attribute that position to you. All I did was explain the difference between strawmanning and disagreement, as you consistently get this wrong, as you've done again here.

Sure you did bluff. If you weren't, then why are you trying to attribute a falsity to me? And you consistently lie, always there is a lie in your mouth accusing a believer of what you cannot show to be true with your insidious braindead unbelief.

Please just try to answer the question asked:

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No?]

Every I know to exist and occur I ONLY know to exist and occur in and with my believing mind silly. And that goes for everyone who knows how the truth and reality works. And why your unbelieving atheist mind doesn't work to make the truth and reality known to you.

So your diagram (with your mind inside God's mind) didn't show containment? That means you didn't draw what was asked for. I asked you to draw a Venn diagram showing location and containment, not of beliefs, but of the actual things themselves, as your answers on this were contradictory.

Strawman. Not at all, in reality the same belief can exist and occur in multiple believing minds at the same time and those beliefs reveal the same reality. Your problem is that none of this is even known to you, because you are wallowing around in the abyss trying to figure out how a unbelieving mind makes anything known to you. FYI, unbelieving minds don't and can't make anything known to you, including the truth and reality. That's why unbelievers can't interpret QM, it is because they start with a presupposition that reality is physical in nature. When in reality all knowledge and existence can ONLY be known to exist and occur in and because of a believing mind.

You said reality is contained within God's mind, and that your mind is contained within reality, but denied that your mind is contained within God's mind. Please draw a new Venn diagram showing how these three can all be true, showing location and containment (not of beliefs but) of God, reality, and your own mind.

Beliefs can be contained in and by multiple believing minds at the same time, that is how the truth and reality is shared between believing minds. Is this unknown to you? That's why unbelievers are left outside of reality, they have unbelieving minds, when in reality a believing mind is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to everyone including unbelievers.

Reader this unbeliever doesn't even know how and why the truth and reality works ONLY in and with a believing mind, they are completely oblivious to reality's demand for belief before He gives up His prize.

I'm afraid it's neither. You said that your mind is contained within reality, that reality is contained within God's mind, and that God's mind exists outside of your mind. From this it follows that your mind exists outside of your own mind. You've told me that you are literally out of your own mind. Or can you draw another Venn diagram showing otherwise?

The one I made is fine, believers are contained inside of God's reality and unbelievers outside. That's you on the outside pretending you know the truth and reality, when I can see the empty void that you are becoming.

I didn't even mention QM, and neither did you. Have you been confused by your own word salad?

No, not at all. I actually understand how the truth and reality exists and occurs. And both require and entail a believing mind in order to exist and occur. And you can't even begin to argue against it without exposing the illogical abyss that is YOUR unbelieving mind silly.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Sure you did bluff. If you weren't, then why are you trying to attribute a falsity to me? And you consistently lie, always there is a lie in your mouth accusing a believer of what you cannot show to be true with your insidious braindead unbelief.
I did not attribute a falsity to you, and I did not lie. I merely explained to you the difference between strawmanning and disagreement.

Every I know to exist and occur I ONLY know to exist and occur in and with my believing mind silly. And that goes for everyone who knows how the truth and reality works. And why your unbelieving atheist mind doesn't work to make the truth and reality known to you.
Is that a Yes or a No? Can you please just answer the question:

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No?]

Strawman. Not at all, in reality the same belief can exist and occur in multiple believing minds at the same time...

Beliefs can be contained in and by multiple believing minds at the same time...
No-one asked you about the location of beliefs. You were asked about the location and containment of your mind, God's mind, and reality. Your first said that your mind is not located in God's mind, then you drew a diagram locating your mind within God's mind. One of those has to be wrong.

The one I made is fine, believers are contained inside of God's reality and unbelievers outside.
So you're now saying that your mind does exist within God's mind, and that you were wrong when you previously denied this? It's hard to keep track of your position when you keep contradicting yourself and changing your answers. Here's what I've got so far. Please let me know if this is correct, or if you want any of these changed from a Yes to a No, or vice versa. Please don't split up this section below to respond to points individually. If any part is inaccurate, then just repost the full list with a revised set of Yes/No answers.

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No? I think you mean 'Yes' but you've yet to give me a straight answer.]
2. Does God exist outside of your mind? Tercon: "Yes"
3. Is reality contained within God's mind? Tercon: "Yes"
4. Is your mind contained within reality? Tercon: "Yes"
5. Is your mind contained within God's mind? [You said "No", but now seem to be saying Yes, and your diagram also says Yes.]
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I did not attribute a falsity to you, and I did not lie. I merely explained to you the difference between strawmanning and disagreement.

Here you are attributing that argument to me and suggesting that my argument is like "2+2 equals 5" (a falsity) without actually dealing with my argument silly.

Correcting you is not strawmanning. If you say 2+2 equals 5, and I say that no, it equals 4, I have not engaged in strawmanning. To strawman is to attribute to you a position you don't hold, and I did not do that.

Is that a Yes or a No? Can you please just answer the question:

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No?]

Everything everyone knows and experiences is in and with their believing mind. And you are pretending there is some other way or place outside of a believing mind that things can be known to you silly.

No-one asked you about the location of beliefs. You were asked about the location and containment of your mind, God's mind, and reality.

How about the ONLY way and place that is able to contain the truth and reality is a believing mind? Because, if belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known and the ONLY thing capable of containing the truth and reality is a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the result of a believing mind.

Your first said that your mind is not located in God's mind, then you drew a diagram locating your mind within God's mind. One of those has to be wrong. So you're now saying that your mind does exist within God's mind, and that you were wrong when you previously denied this?

If I said that, then I must have misspoke. The diagram shows how I am in His mind and He in mine. If I am inside His mind and His mind is reality, then His reality and Mind is in my mind as well. If I share God's belief, then I share His truth and reality as well.

It's hard to keep track of your position when you keep contradicting yourself and changing your answers.

No it isn't hard at all, you're just trying to hide the truth and reality of God from yourself all the time in order to sustain your unbelief, because unbelief has no object of belief in order to maintain your position.

Here's what I've got so far. Please let me know if this is correct, or if you want any of these changed from a Yes to a No, or vice versa. Please don't split up this section below to respond to points individually. If any part is inaccurate, then just repost the full list with a revised set of Yes/No answers.

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No? I think you mean 'Yes' but you've yet to give me a straight answer.]

Everything everyone knows and experiences is in and with their believing mind. And you are pretending there is some other way or place outside of a believing mind that things can be known to you silly.

2. Does God exist outside of your mind? Tercon: "Yes"

If the truth and reality is ONLY able to be known to occur in and with a believing mind, then all truth and reality depends on someone's believing mind for its existence and occurrence.

3. Is reality contained within God's mind? Tercon: "Yes"

The truth and reality is the result of God's believing mind, His mind is the Original believing mind that creates and sustains all other believing minds. And outside of a believing mind nothing is knowable or occurable.

4. Is your mind contained within reality? Tercon: "Yes"

If the truth and reality is only known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind, then it is only believing minds that can be known to contain the truth and reality.

5. Is your mind contained within God's mind? [You said "No", but now seem to be saying Yes, and your diagram also says Yes.]

When different minds share the same beliefs, then they get to share the same truth and reality as well.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Here you are attributing that argument to me and suggesting that my argument is like "2+2 equals 5" (a falsity) without actually dealing with my argument silly.
I didn't attribute anything to you. Note the word "IF" in what I said. I used a hypothetical to explain to you the difference between strawmanning and disagreement, because you keep confusing the two.

Everything everyone knows and experiences is in and with their believing mind. And you are pretending there is some other way or place outside of a believing mind that things can be known to you silly.
Is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'? Please just answer what was asked:

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No?]

If I said that, then I must have misspoke. The diagram shows how I am in His mind and He in mine. If I am inside His mind and His mind is reality, then His reality and Mind is in my mind as well.
Then you misspoke consistently for several pages from the beginning of this thread. I refer you back to our first exchanges from page 1:

N: How can one mind exist literally inside another mind?
T: Strawman. They don't have to "exist literally inside another mind".
N: So your mind doesn't exist inside God's mind? And God's mind doesn't exist inside yours? How then can either of you know the other to exist?

Now you're back to saying that minds exist inside each other, as per your diagram. But every single time I said that, you accused me of strawmanning.

Everything everyone knows and experiences is in and with their believing mind. And you are pretending there is some other way or place outside of a believing mind that things can be known to you silly.

If the truth and reality is ONLY able to be known to occur in and with a believing mind, then all truth and reality depends on someone's believing mind for its existence and occurrence.

The truth and reality is the result of God's believing mind, His mind is the Original believing mind that creates and sustains all other believing minds. And outside of a believing mind nothing is knowable or occurable.

If the truth and reality is only known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind, then it is only believing minds that can be known to contain the truth and reality.

When different minds share the same beliefs, then they get to share the same truth and reality as well.
I specifically asked you not to split up my summary of your answers and respond to them individually, and yet you've gone ahead and done exactly that. Yet your whole effort was wasted because at no point have you actually changed or revised any of your answers. So we still have the following (I've updated (5) as you indicated earlier in your post that your first answer was mistaken and your diagram was correct):

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No? Still no straight answer.]
2. Does God exist outside of your mind? Tercon: "Yes"
3. Is reality contained within God's mind? Tercon: "Yes"
4. Is your mind contained within reality? Tercon: "Yes"
5. Is your mind contained within God's mind? "Yes"

All of this leads us back to my very first question to you in this thread: "How can one mind exist literally inside another mind?"
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I didn't attribute anything to you. Note the word "IF" in what I said. I used a hypothetical to explain to you the difference between strawmanning and disagreement, because you keep confusing the two.

Sure you did. This is what you said:

Nouveau said:
Correcting you is not strawmanning. If you say 2+2 equals 5, and I say that no, it equals 4, I have not engaged in strawmanning. To strawman is to attribute to you a position you don't hold, and I did not do that.

Strawman and projection. I didn't argue "2+2 equals 5" period. And you have never corrected me like that. Rather you build strawmen like you are doing right here and correct those strawmen instead. That's strawmanning and projecting that misrepresentation of my argument. You have never argued like that, because you never say how and why my argument is false or illogical.

And suggesting you corrected me like that is a strawman and just you projecting your silly ignorance. You don't even know how and why the truth and reality is known to people.

Is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'? Please just answer what was asked:

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No?]

Everything everyone knows to exist and occur is done inside and with their believing mind silly. And you pretending it doesn't demonstrates the utter foolishness your atheist mind.

Then you misspoke consistently for several pages from the beginning of this thread. I refer you back to our first exchanges from page 1:

N: How can one mind exist literally inside another mind?
T: Strawman. They don't have to "exist literally inside another mind".
N: So your mind doesn't exist inside God's mind? And God's mind doesn't exist inside yours? How then can either of you know the other to exist?

Now you're back to saying that minds exist inside each other, as per your diagram. But every single time I said that, you accused me of strawmanning.

Strawman. Minds don't have to occur physically inside one another to know and experience one another silly. We can know and experience other minds by just believing the same truth and reality they do. You really don't know how believing minds work with the truth and reality do you, do you know why you don't know that? It is because you have a unbelieving mind instead of a believing mind. You are ignorant of how and why the truth and reality is known.
 
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Nouveau

Well-known member
Sure you did. This is what you said:

Strawman and projection. I didn't argue "2+2 equals 5" period. And you have never corrected me like that. Rather you build strawmen like you are doing right here and correct those strawmen instead. That's strawmanning and projecting that misrepresentation of my argument. You have never argued like that, because you never say how and why my argument is false or illogical.

And suggesting you corrected me like that is a strawman and just you projecting your silly ignorance. You don't even know how and why the truth and reality is known to people.
Please learn the difference between strawmanning and correction. At no point have I misrepresented you. All I did was explain to you the difference between misrepresenting you and disagreeing with you. By failing to understand this, you have in fact been strawmanning me.

Everything everyone knows to exist and occur is done inside and with their believing mind silly. And you pretending it doesn't demonstrates the utter foolishness your atheist mind.
Is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'? Please just answer what was asked:

1. Does God exist inside of your mind? [Yes or No?]

Strawman. Minds don't have to occur physically inside one another to know and experience one another silly. We can know and experience other minds by just believing the same truth and reality they do. You really don't know how believing minds work with the truth and reality do you, do you know why you don't know that? It is because you have a unbelieving mind instead of a believing mind. You are ignorant of how and why the truth and reality is known.
Please make up your mind. You explicitly said that minds DO exist inside each other. And now you're flip-flopping back again by accusing me of strawmanning when reporting back to you your very own words:

N: "Your first said that your mind is not located in God's mind..."
T: "If I said that, then I must have misspoke. The diagram shows how I am in His mind and He in mine."

So perhaps you could take this argument up with Tercon, and then get back to me when the two of you reach agreement.
 
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