Reformed Heresy

RCM said:

John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

John 1:9-10, "There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him."

John first uses the word 'kosmos' in verses 1:9-10

Please explain how the bolded reference to John's use of 'kosmos' does not mean every single person without exception?

Shifting the burden of proof, you are.

I have clearly exposed the Reformed argument about how John defines 'kosmos' as being in gross error


It is noted that you are unable to respond with Biblical Scripture to support your position


RCM
 
Ridiculous question

I see...
So I have to answer your questions, but you don't have to answer mine?
Double standards much?

Limited Atonement is contrary to Old Testament theology and contrary to John 1:29

Since you haven't demonstrated any such thing, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Have a nice day! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

Oldest trick in the apologetic handbook, if you are completely unable to defend your position with Biblical Scripture, make personal attacks so as to put them on the defensive

Let the lurkers note that the ABOVE is a "personal attack".
 
RCM said:

That statement was pulled right off of this board, posted and defended frequently

I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist, I hold to a consistent Biblical Theology

Then why are you posting the Calvinist and Arminian thread? If you’re neither, then you are violating the forum rules by posting in here.

If a thread about the Reformed heresy of 'Limited Atonement' doesn't belong here, where does it belong?


RCM
 
RCM said:

John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

John 1:9-10, "There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him."

John first uses the word 'kosmos' in verses 1:9-10

Please explain how the bolded reference to John's use of 'kosmos' does not mean every single person without exception?
I have no obligation regarding your assertion except to demand you prove it -- so, prove it.

I have clearly exposed the Reformed argument about how John defines 'kosmos' as being in gross error


It is noted that you are unable to respond with Biblical Scripture to support your position


RCM
Let me know when you offer a proof for your assertion that limited atonement is heresy.

So far all you offer is, "because I say it is." ?
 
My whole argument is what Christ's Work accomplished on the Cross

Tell me how Jesus rules in supreme authority and dominion if He did not deal with sin in its entirety that John 1:29 clearly states with Romans 5:12 as a foundational reference

I am not saying everyone is saved, I agree with John 6:44

Jesus was completely victorious over sin, death, and the ruler of this world



RCM
I certainly agree that there was a work that Jesus finished on the cross; he said it is finished. He finished Keeping the Covenant of Moses. But there is more for him to do because of the Covenant of Grace, which he is the High Priest of. Jesus is our High Priest, and he continues to make intercession for us in heaven. Another of his Priestly duties, was to make Atonement for Sin in the Heavenly Holy of Holies...

Since Jesus had more work to do, the Atonement was limited by what needed to be done...
 
I certainly agree that there was a work that Jesus finished on the cross; he said it is finished. He finished Keeping the Covenant of Moses. But there is more for him to do because of the Covenant of Grace, which he is the High Priest of. Jesus is our High Priest, and he continues to make intercession for us in heaven. Another of his Priestly duties, was to make Atonement for Sin in the Heavenly Holy of Holies...

Since Jesus had more work to do, the Atonement was limited by what needed to be done...

So your part of the clean up team.

I think we are about done here.

IMO ...... perpetual death is not tainabl;e.

Do you think Jesus died for every one to be dead?
 
Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man the sin entered into the world, and through the sin the death, and so the death spread to all men, because all sinned"

John 1:29, "The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

1 John 3:8, "The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."

1 John 2:1-2, "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

Life lesson time...

One thing I've been studying recently is financial planning. I follow two really good Canadian CFP YT channels (since I'm Canadian), one is more focussed on investing, and the other is more focussed on retirement planning, etc.

I just finished watcing a video on "Passive Investment Income", which is an investment strategy for investing in stocks with high-dividend yields, so you get a regular passive (monthly or quarterly income). The presenter pointed out that you can find YT videos which argue that this is a TERRIBLE strategy (and give their reasons), and you can find YT videos which argue that it is a very PRODUCTIVE strategy (and give their reasons). The video I watched gave a "pros and cons" approach, and listed the arguments for BOTH sides, so it was far more balanced.

RELATING IT BACK TO THEOLOGY...

This is what we see far too little of in this forum. The anti-Calvinists want to concentrate ONLY on the arguments AGAINST (say) limited atonement. We are well aware of the arguments, but we are also aware of the POSITIVE arguments, which we present, and which prevent us from rejecting what we believe.

I've said this before, if I was to write a book about a topic (eg. Calvinism), I would do my best to honestly present BOTH sides in the best way possible. But few people in the forum seem to want to do this, so the next best is for lurkers to study:
- what did the Calvinists present;
- what did the anti-Calvinsits present;
- what is the net result when we look at ALL the information presented.
 
Who said limited atonement was a heresy? Are you a universalist?
This is the logical conclusion.

His theology goes there and there is no way around it, unless in response he contradicts his theology.

But he conveniently avoids this by disregarding others posts which expose his errors. Just claim victory, right?

Man doing "this or that" doesn't validate, invalidate, or actuate what Christ accomplished. So there is no "man must decide, believe &c" excuse that is valid, because it is already accomplished for the entire world (every person ever) according to his erroneous view.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Or perhaps we could take a poll (although I don't think you'd like the results.)



No, I am UNWILLING to do so.
I'm not trying to convince you of my view, so it is rude to "challenge" me.
If you want to reject my beliefs, go ahead. It's a free country. No skin off my nose.
As most people here already know, I'm not interested in twerps running around with a chip on their should goading for an argument, only to treat me rudely when I interact.

Sorry, not interested.
Unlike you, I'm secure in my beliefs.
I don't have to "prove" them to anyone.



We'll have to agree to disagree.

I am very familiar with your posting style

Normally, you have Biblical Scripture after Biblical Scripture supporting your theological argument and your arguments are sound

But, on 'Limited Atonement', you have nothing!

There is no Biblical Scripture to support 'Limited Atonement'

The Reformed argument is that 'all' doesn't mean 'all' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand 1 Timothy 2:4 and others

The Reformed argument is that 'world' doesn't mean 'world' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand John 1:29 and others

So, on 'Limited Atonement' instead of working from a basis of Biblical Scripture support, you are working from a basis of negation


Therefore, from a basis of negation do you realize what else you have negated?


1 John 3:8, "The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."


The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30) Tetelestai

The Reformed heresy of 'Limited Atonement' limits the blood of Christ from accomplishing everything the Apostle of John said it would do!


Quote from John Owen, "
We confess that “blood of God,” Acts 20:28, of the “Lamb without blemish and without spot,” 1 Pet. 1:19, was so exceedingly precious, of that infinite worth and value, that it might have saved a thousand believing worlds, John 3:16; Rom. 3:22. His death was of sufficient dignity to have been made a ransom for all the sins of every one in the world. Inasmuch as this word “all” is taken for some of all sorts (not for every one of every sort).

Owen, J. (n.d.). The works of John Owen. (W. H. Goold, Ed.) (Vol. 10, p. 89). Edinburgh: T&T Clark.



RCM
 
I am very familiar with your posting style

Normally, you have Biblical Scripture after Biblical Scripture supporting your theological argument and your arguments are sound

But, on 'Limited Atonement', you have nothing!

There is no Biblical Scripture to support 'Limited Atonement'

The Reformed argument is that 'all' doesn't mean 'all' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand 1 Timothy 2:4 and others

The Reformed argument is that 'world' doesn't mean 'world' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand John 1:29 and others

So, on 'Limited Atonement' instead of working from a basis of Biblical Scripture support, you are working from a basis of negation


Therefore, from a basis of negation do you realize what else you have negated?


1 John 3:8, "The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."


The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30) Tetelestai

The Reformed heresy of 'Limited Atonement' limits the blood of Christ from accomplishing everything the Apostle of John said it would do!


Quote from John Owen, "
We confess that “blood of God,” Acts 20:28, of the “Lamb without blemish and without spot,” 1 Pet. 1:19, was so exceedingly precious, of that infinite worth and value, that it might have saved a thousand believing worlds, John 3:16; Rom. 3:22. His death was of sufficient dignity to have been made a ransom for all the sins of every one in the world. Inasmuch as this word “all” is taken for some of all sorts (not for every one of every sort).

Owen, J. (n.d.). The works of John Owen. (W. H. Goold, Ed.) (Vol. 10, p. 89). Edinburgh: T&T Clark.



RCM
It limits His blood for whom it was intended. Not one drop is wasted as it is in your theology
 
It limits His blood for whom it was intended. Not one drop is wasted as it is in your theology

So, you admit, The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30)

Please state Biblical Scripture that supports Reformed 'Limited Atonement'

All Biblical Doctrine has Biblical support

Working from a basis of negation is like the old Gnostics using scissors to cut out parts of scripture that contradicts their heresy


If you cannot quote Biblical Scripture to support Reformed 'Limited Atonement' then it is an admission of heresy!


RCM
 
Was atonement finished on the cross?
Yes it was.

Is every single person saved?
No, of course not.

Therefore "Gentiles" or "whole world" or "all" doesn't refer to every single person.

The atonement was limited.
Pretty simple

The Reformed argument is that 'all' doesn't mean 'all' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand 1 Timothy 2:4 and others

The Reformed argument is that 'world' doesn't mean 'world' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand John 1:29 and others

So, on 'Limited Atonement' instead of working from a basis of Biblical Scripture support, you are working from a basis of negation


Therefore, from a basis of negation do you realize what else you have negated?


1 John 3:8, "The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."


The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30) Tetelestai

The Reformed heresy of 'Limited Atonement' limits the blood of Christ from accomplishing everything the Apostle of John said it would do!




RCM
 
So, you admit, The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30)

Please state Biblical Scripture that supports Reformed 'Limited Atonement'

All Biblical Doctrine has Biblical support

Working from a basis of negation is like the old Gnostics using scissors to cut out parts of scripture that contradicts their heresy


If you cannot quote Biblical Scripture to support Reformed 'Limited Atonement' then it is an admission of heresy!


RCM
Great way to dodge my point.

Who said it is heresy? Another dodged question
 
The Reformed argument is that 'all' doesn't mean 'all' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand 1 Timothy 2:4 and others

The Reformed argument is that 'world' doesn't mean 'world' so you can dismiss with the wave of a hand John 1:29 and others

So, on 'Limited Atonement' instead of working from a basis of Biblical Scripture support, you are working from a basis of negation


Therefore, from a basis of negation do you realize what else you have negated?


1 John 3:8, "The one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil."


The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30) Tetelestai

The Reformed heresy of 'Limited Atonement' limits the blood of Christ from accomplishing everything the Apostle of John said it would do!




RCM
You also limit the blood of Christ, Apparently some of those for whom it was shed end up in hell, What good was it to them??
 
Your assertion is, the Reformed doctrine of limited atonement is heresy.

You've yet to prove that. ?

According to Reformed 'Limited Atonement,' The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30)

Please state Biblical Scripture that supports Reformed 'Limited Atonement'

All Biblical Doctrine has Biblical support

Working from a basis of negation is like the old Gnostics using scissors to cut out parts of scripture that contradicts their heresy


If you cannot quote Biblical Scripture to support Reformed 'Limited Atonement' then it is an admission of heresy!



RCM
 
According to Reformed 'Limited Atonement,' The devil is only partially defeated. The debt of sin against God is only partially been paid. It is only partially finished. God is only partially satisfied. (John 19:30)

Please state Biblical Scripture that supports Reformed 'Limited Atonement'

All Biblical Doctrine has Biblical support

Working from a basis of negation is like the old Gnostics using scissors to cut out parts of scripture that contradicts their heresy


If you cannot quote Biblical Scripture to support Reformed 'Limited Atonement' then it is an admission of heresy!



RCM
Who said it was a heresy??
 
Great way to dodge my point.

Who said it is heresy? Another dodged question

The Reformed are the ones who are dodging on 'Limited Atonement'

You have absolutely no Biblical Scriptural support for this heretical doctrine

Please state Biblical Scripture that supports Reformed 'Limited Atonement'

All Biblical Doctrine has Biblical support


If you cannot quote Biblical Scripture to support Reformed 'Limited Atonement' then it is an admission of heresy!


RCM
 
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