Reformed Preterism Is Dead

RCM

RCM

Active member
Reformed beliefs that much of Old Testament Prophecy concerning Israel has been fulfilled and that the Church is now the Israel of God has been exposed as heresy and false teaching by James' quote of Amos 9, therefore, 'Preterism' should be considered dead!


Amos and James in Acts 15 prove the 'Day of the Lord' is synonymous with the 'Return of Jesus' (Second Coming)

Amos 9:11
11 "In that day (Day of the Lord) I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;


Acts 15:13-16
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me.
14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. (Times of the Gentiles, Luke 21:24)
15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 'AFTER these things, (Times of the Gentiles), I will return (Day of the Lord), AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,


James' quote of Amos establishes a firm foundation for interpretation

When Jesus returns, He will then restore the Davidic Kingdom to Israel in the Millennium


These Biblical Scriptures have establish solid Biblical Theology concerning Israel's restoration that contradicts and destroys the interpretation that Old Testament Prophecies have all been fulfilled and that the Church is now, Israel!


  • Amos 9:11-15 The LORD will restore Israel to its former glory, and they will never be uprooted again
  • Micah 4:1-5 The LORD’s future reign on earth in Jerusalem
  • Micah 4:6-13 The LORD will gather Israel and restore the kingdom
  • Zechariah 2:1-13 The LORD is going to going to call the exiles home to live with him in Israel
  • Zechariah 6:9-15 The LORD will rule as king and priest in the rebuilt temple
  • Zechariah 8:1-23 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will return to Mount Zion and live in Jerusalem to bless the remnant of Israel
  • Zechariah 9:9-17 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will destroy all the weapons used in battle and bring peace to the nations
  • Zechariah 10:1-12 The LORD will restore his people
  • Zechariah 12:1-14 The LORD will defend his people and give victory to Jerusalem
  • Zechariah 14:1-21 The LORD will rule the whole earth from Jerusalem


RCM
 
RCM said:
When Jesus returns, He will then restore the Davidic Kingdom to Israel in the Millennium
Click to expand...

You believe David will sit on some throne?

If it is not David, then your claims fail.

It is clear that the heir of Abraham is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. David's body has turned to dirt and still lays in the ground.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

You mock Jesus Christ with your nonsense. David is dead. Jesus Christ is the only heir of Abraham with eternal promises.
 
christ_undivided said:
You believe David will sit on some throne?

If it is not David, then your claims fail.

It is clear that the heir of Abraham is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. David's body has turned to dirt and still lays in the ground.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

You mock Jesus Christ with your nonsense. David is dead. Jesus Christ is the only heir of Abraham with eternal promises.
Click to expand...

Has Jesus returned? No!

James' quote of Amos 9 clearly states that the Davidic Kingdom will be restored to Israel after Jesus' return!

So, any reformed theology about the Church now being the Israel of God is heresy

You have been proven wrong and you need to rethink your theology!



RCM
 
RCM said:
Has Jesus returned? No!

James' quote of Amos 9 clearly states that the Davidic Kingdom will be restored to Israel after Jesus' return!

So, any reformed theology about the Church now being the Israel of God is heresy

You have been proven wrong and you need to rethink your theology!



RCM
Click to expand...
Jesus has already returned. Exactly when He said He would.
 

​

RCM said:
Reformed beliefs that much of Old Testament Prophecy concerning Israel has been fulfilled and that the Church is now the Israel of God has been exposed as heresy and false teaching by James' quote of Amos 9, therefore, 'Preterism' should be considered dead!


Amos and James in Acts 15 prove the 'Day of the Lord' is synonymous with the 'Return of Jesus' (Second Coming)

Amos 9:11
11 "In that day (Day of the Lord) I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;


Acts 15:13-16
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me.
14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. (Times of the Gentiles, Luke 21:24)
15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 'AFTER these things, (Times of the Gentiles), I will return (Day of the Lord), AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,


James' quote of Amos establishes a firm foundation for interpretation

When Jesus returns, He will then restore the Davidic Kingdom to Israel in the Millennium


These Biblical Scriptures have establish solid Biblical Theology concerning Israel's restoration that contradicts and destroys the interpretation that Old Testament Prophecies have all been fulfilled and that the Church is now, Israel!


  • Amos 9:11-15 The LORD will restore Israel to its former glory, and they will never be uprooted again
  • Micah 4:1-5 The LORD’s future reign on earth in Jerusalem
  • Micah 4:6-13 The LORD will gather Israel and restore the kingdom
  • Zechariah 2:1-13 The LORD is going to going to call the exiles home to live with him in Israel
  • Zechariah 6:9-15 The LORD will rule as king and priest in the rebuilt temple
  • Zechariah 8:1-23 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will return to Mount Zion and live in Jerusalem to bless the remnant of Israel
  • Zechariah 9:9-17 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will destroy all the weapons used in battle and bring peace to the nations
  • Zechariah 10:1-12 The LORD will restore his people
  • Zechariah 12:1-14 The LORD will defend his people and give victory to Jerusalem
  • Zechariah 14:1-21 The LORD will rule the whole earth from Jerusalem


RCM
Click to expand...

Reformed Preterism Is Dead​

True, there is much in Revelation that has not happened.
Reformedguy said:
Jesus has already returned. Exactly when He said He would.
Click to expand...
?????????
 
RCM said:
Reformed beliefs that much of Old Testament Prophecy concerning Israel has been fulfilled and that the Church is now the Israel of God has been exposed as heresy and false teaching by James' quote of Amos 9, therefore, 'Preterism' should be considered dead!


Amos and James in Acts 15 prove the 'Day of the Lord' is synonymous with the 'Return of Jesus' (Second Coming)

Amos 9:11
11 "In that day (Day of the Lord) I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;


Acts 15:13-16
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me.
14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. (Times of the Gentiles, Luke 21:24)
15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 'AFTER these things, (Times of the Gentiles), I will return (Day of the Lord), AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,


James' quote of Amos establishes a firm foundation for interpretation

When Jesus returns, He will then restore the Davidic Kingdom to Israel in the Millennium
Click to expand...

Read it again.

RCM said:
These Biblical Scriptures have establish solid Biblical Theology concerning Israel's restoration that contradicts and destroys the interpretation that Old Testament Prophecies have all been fulfilled and that the Church is now, Israel!


  • Amos 9:11-15 The LORD will restore Israel to its former glory, and they will never be uprooted again
  • Micah 4:1-5 The LORD’s future reign on earth in Jerusalem
  • Micah 4:6-13 The LORD will gather Israel and restore the kingdom
  • Zechariah 2:1-13 The LORD is going to going to call the exiles home to live with him in Israel
  • Zechariah 6:9-15 The LORD will rule as king and priest in the rebuilt temple
  • Zechariah 8:1-23 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will return to Mount Zion and live in Jerusalem to bless the remnant of Israel
  • Zechariah 9:9-17 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will destroy all the weapons used in battle and bring peace to the nations
  • Zechariah 10:1-12 The LORD will restore his people
  • Zechariah 12:1-14 The LORD will defend his people and give victory to Jerusalem
  • Zechariah 14:1-21 The LORD will rule the whole earth from Jerusalem


RCM
Click to expand...
 
Reformedguy said:
Jesus has already returned. Exactly when He said He would.
Click to expand...
I must agree. for he has a two-fold return. and his first return was in Spirit and Power on the day of Pentecost. and his Parousia in flesh and bone is yet to come.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
101G said:
I must agree. for he has a two-fold return. and his first return was in Spirit and Power on the day of Pentecost. and his Parousia in flesh and bone is yet to come.

PICJAG, 101G.
Click to expand...
Well....

(A) That's not what is claimed by the Preterist. They put his return in 70 AD, not at Pentecost.

(B) Jesus didn't return on Pentecost. The Holy Spirit came on Pentecost, sent by Jesus, who was and is sitting at the right hand of the Father. He told us so.
 
RCM said:
Reformed beliefs that much of Old Testament Prophecy concerning Israel has been fulfilled and that the Church is now the Israel of God has been exposed as heresy and false teaching by James' quote of Amos 9, therefore, 'Preterism' should be considered dead!


Amos and James in Acts 15 prove the 'Day of the Lord' is synonymous with the 'Return of Jesus' (Second Coming)

Amos 9:11
11 "In that day (Day of the Lord) I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;


Acts 15:13-16
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me.
14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. (Times of the Gentiles, Luke 21:24)
15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 'AFTER these things, (Times of the Gentiles), I will return (Day of the Lord), AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,


James' quote of Amos establishes a firm foundation for interpretation

When Jesus returns, He will then restore the Davidic Kingdom to Israel in the Millennium


These Biblical Scriptures have establish solid Biblical Theology concerning Israel's restoration that contradicts and destroys the interpretation that Old Testament Prophecies have all been fulfilled and that the Church is now, Israel!


  • Amos 9:11-15 The LORD will restore Israel to its former glory, and they will never be uprooted again
  • Micah 4:1-5 The LORD’s future reign on earth in Jerusalem
  • Micah 4:6-13 The LORD will gather Israel and restore the kingdom
  • Zechariah 2:1-13 The LORD is going to going to call the exiles home to live with him in Israel
  • Zechariah 6:9-15 The LORD will rule as king and priest in the rebuilt temple
  • Zechariah 8:1-23 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will return to Mount Zion and live in Jerusalem to bless the remnant of Israel
  • Zechariah 9:9-17 The LORD of Heaven’s Armies will destroy all the weapons used in battle and bring peace to the nations
  • Zechariah 10:1-12 The LORD will restore his people
  • Zechariah 12:1-14 The LORD will defend his people and give victory to Jerusalem
  • Zechariah 14:1-21 The LORD will rule the whole earth from Jerusalem


RCM
Click to expand...
This things have been fulfilled in the NT.
Amos 9 was fulfilled according to Acts, in Christ building His church.

All those fine verses are about the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.
 
101G said:
I must agree. for he has a two-fold return. and his first return was in Spirit and Power on the day of Pentecost. and his Parousia in flesh and bone is yet to come.

PICJAG, 101G.
Click to expand...
Jesus never mentioned TWO returns. While He's present Spiritually whenever/wherever two or more are gathered in His name, that's not His return. The only one He mentions is His physical parousia.
 
robycop3 said:
Jesus never mentioned TWO returns. While He's present Spiritually whenever/wherever two or more are gathered in His name, that's not His return. The only one He mentions is His physical parousia.
Click to expand...
first thanks for the reply, Second, you ERROR, John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

and he did come .... on the day of Pentecost, see acts chapter 2. and this coming is in Spirit, not every eye saw him, because he MANIFESTED himself in the Spiritual Gifts. let's see this MANIFESTATION of the Spirit, verse 19-21. LISTEN,
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

he manifested himself in the Spiritual Gifts poured out on the day of Pentecost.

now his parousia, when EVERY EYE will see him, Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
yes, the second time appeared because he appeared the first time in flesh as a babe, see Luke 2:25. and the consolation of Israel is the Holy Spirit in Flesh as a man. seen of men and angels.

and when he comes in the Clouds, then EVERY EYE will see him, Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

this is the TWO-FOLD RETURN of the Lord JESUS.

First return in Spirit, no EYES SEE him John 14:18, per John 14:21 (a MANIFESTATION), fulfilled Acts chapter 2
Second return, in FLESH, EVERY EYE will see him, Revelation 1:7 per Hebrew 9:28. (an APPERANCE), yet to be fulfilled.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
101G said:
meaning he came, because he is the Holy Spirit.

PICJAG, 101G.
Click to expand...
No. Jesus is the Son. The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit. And the Father is the Father. Three in one. There is one God.

John 1:32​
Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.​

So he came down upon himself? Not quite. Although there is but one God.

John 1:34​
I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.​

So Jesus is his own Chosen One? Not quite. Although there is but one God.

Mark 1:8​
I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”​

So John the Baptist baptized Jesus so Jesus could baptize with himself? Not quite. Although there is but one God.

Matthew 1:16-17​
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”​

Wow. Jesus descended from heaven and landed on Jesus. And then while they stood on the earth, Jesus' voice from heaven said "This is my Son..." So Jesus is his own Dad?? Not quite. Although there is but one God.


Three PERSONS in ONE God. They are distinct, separate persons. Three of them. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. Although there is but one God.

You would do well to learn this and learn it well, for to not know this is heresy.
 
BlessedAnomaly said:
Wow. Jesus descended from heaven and landed on Jesus. And then while they stood on the earth, Jesus' voice from heaven said "This is my Son..." So Jesus is his own Dad?? Not quite. Although there is but one God.
Click to expand...
first thanks for the reply, I see you have no understanding of the ECHAD of God as Father, the Ordinal First, and the Son, the Ordinal Last. no need for me to explain anything to You/
BlessedAnomaly said:
Three PERSONS in ONE God. They are distinct, separate persons. Three of them. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Spirit. The Spirit is not the Father. Although there is but one God.
Click to expand...
if so, reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. now I ask you is this the one and the same person who "MADE ALL THINGS?"
BlessedAnomaly said:
You would do well to learn this and learn it well, for to not know this is heresy.
Click to expand...
just answer the question above.

:ninja:
 
Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are all God, so when the Holy Spirit came on the first pentecost, you can say Jesus came. But the ONLY return Jesus mentioned is His parousia.
 
101G said:
if so, reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. now I ask you is this the one and the same person who "MADE ALL THINGS?"
Click to expand...
What is to reconcile? Jesus is God. God is Three Persons. The Word created all things. Scripture is clear on this.

Can you answer to all the verses I quoted prior? Obviously not, you skipped them.

Here, try this one:

Acts 7:55​
But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked intently toward heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.​

If Stephen is full of the Holy Spirit, whom you say is Jesus, then how can he look up into heaven and see Jesus up there?
 
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