Reformed theology--and the Biblical witness

dberrie2020

Well-known member
How does reformed theology comport with the Biblical witness here?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

IOW--how are those obeying God before they receive of the Holy Ghost?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
How does reformed theology comport with the Biblical witness here?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

IOW--how are those obeying God before they receive of the Holy Ghost?
Its them who have been given the Holy Ghost that obeys God. The Holy Spirit in them causes the obedience. 1 Pet 1:2

2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

You cant obey without the Spirit, sorry !
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
How does reformed theology comport with the Biblical witness here?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version

Perfectly (since you asked).

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

IOW--how are those obeying God before they receive of the Holy Ghost?

Um, nowhere does that verse say "those were obeying God BEFORE they receive of the Holy Ghost".

Show us the word "before" in that verse.
It simply isn't there.
You are simply MISINTERPRETING that verse, and demanding that we blindly accept your misinterpretation.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Its them who have been given the Holy Ghost that obeys God.
That's the claim--here's the reality:

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

No one is claiming those who have the Holy Ghost don't obey God. But the scriptures testify God gives the Holy Ghost to them which obey Him.

Hoe does Reformed theology fit that testimony?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
dberrie

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

This shows where repentance comes from, its from Christ as Saviour, man doesnt have it by nature. Also this repentance is given to a specific people, not all without exception !
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
That's the claim--here's the reality:

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

No one is claiming those who have the Holy Ghost don't obey God. But the scriptures testify God gives the Holy Ghost to them which obey Him.

Hoe does Reformed theology fit that testimony?

It fits that testimony PERFECTLY.

If you think it doesn't, it's YOUR job to demonstrate HOW.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That's the claim--here's the reality:

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

No one is claiming those who have the Holy Ghost don't obey God. But the scriptures testify God gives the Holy Ghost to them which obey Him.

Hoe does Reformed theology fit that testimony?
I explained that to you. Obedience is the fruit of having been given the Spirit, thats who obeys
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
This shows where repentance comes from, its from Christ as Saviour, man doesnt have it by nature
Hi Bright:

How are you relating this to the testimony God give the Holy Ghost to them which obey Him?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Hi Bright:

How are you relating this to the testimony God give the Holy Ghost to them which obey Him?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Repentance/obedience comes from Christ !
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Repentance/obedience comes from Christ !
It's still the obedience of those--which God gives the Holy Ghost to.

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
It's still the obedience of those--which God gives the Holy Ghost to.

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Yeah the Spirit produces the Obedience. You can tell who has been given the Spirit because they will be obedient .
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Yeah the Spirit produces the Obedience. You can tell who has been given the Spirit because they will be obedient .
I'm not arguing those who have the Spirit are obedient--that's an entirely different avenue, IMO.

What the scriptures bear testimony to--it's those which work righteousness and obey God--which are accepted of Him--and whom He gives the Holy Ghost.

Bright--I have fun conversing with you, and I'm not here to say you don't have the right to believe whatever you like. Or to criticize you. I enjoy our conversation--in whatever you want to believe. I'm just providing the scriptures and their testimony. You decide.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I'm not arguing those who have the Spirit are obedient--that's an entirely different avenue, IMO.

What the scriptures bear testimony to--it's those which work righteousness and obey God--which are accepted of Him--and whom He gives the Holy Ghost.

Bright--I have fun conversing with you, and I'm not here to say you don't have the right to believe whatever you like. Or to criticize you. I enjoy our conversation--in whatever you want to believe. I'm just providing the scriptures and their testimony. You decide.
Same thing, they who work righteousness have been given the Spirit.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Same thing, they who work righteousness have been given the Spirit.
Before they were accepted of Christ?

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Before they were accepted of Christ?

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
They always had been accepted of Christ.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
They always had been accepted of Christ.
Even before they worked righteousness?

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Even before they worked righteousness?

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Yes. They're accepted in the beloved before the foundation of the world Eph 1:6
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
brightfame52 said:
Its them who have been given the Holy Ghost that obeys God. The Holy Spirit in them causes the obedience. 1 Pet 1:2

2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

You cant obey without the Spirit, sorry !
That's the claim--here's the reality:

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

No one is claiming those who have the Holy Ghost don't obey God. But the scriptures testify God gives the Holy Ghost to them which obey Him.

How does Reformed theology fit that testimony?

So--this seems to be the typical position. The scriptures testifying God gives the Holy Ghost to them which obey--and the Reformed insisting that one can't obey until they receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So--
1) Repent
2) Baptism
3) Gift of the Holy Ghost
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
So--this seems to be the typical position. The scriptures testifying God gives the Holy Ghost to them which obey--and the Reformed insisting that one can't obey until they receive the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So--
1) Repent
2) Baptism
3) Gift of the Holy Ghost
Yes God gave the holy ghost first and he pricked their hearts vs 37

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

The Holy Spirit did this work in them inwardly first then they were obedience. It's the same as stated in Acts 5:32

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 
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