Reformist basics.

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guest1

Guest
That's God's domain. I would think that He keeps loving us until we willingly respond in kind.

Yes.

We are all sinners to various degrees. For example, you might sear your mind but not your heart, or vice versa. With that in mind, Total Depravity is the Total Searing of all our God-given faculties. Not everyone has totally seared all their faculties so not everyone is totally depraved.

When we choose to repent, God grants us repentance. That "un-sears" our souls.
Can you define what you think total depravity means, thanks!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I still maintain that without God's Grace we have no spiritual perception. Therefore, God's Grace most definitely does help us to believe spiritually.

We are all sinners to various degrees. For example, you might sear your mind but not your heart, or vice versa. With that in mind, Total Depravity is the Total Searing of all our God-given faculties. Not everyone has totally seared all their faculties so not everyone is totally depraved.
Since we're Sinners of varying degrees, that degree for every Christian must have crossed the line; since every Christian needs God's help to believe, right? Why is this not Total Inability before Grace? Even if we only need enough help for something easy; like stepping over a mole-hill?
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
Making Mountains out of mole hills ~ by ReverendRV

Isaiah 40:4 NIV
; Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain.

In one way, our verse is like “Making a Mountain out of a mole hill”. This is an Idiom that describes how we feel when issues are too big for us to handle, though they may seem minor to others. These days this Idiom is turned on its head and used optimistically; ‘Turning Mountains into mole hills’. When the world gives you lemons, make Lemonade! This Idiom helps us put things in a newer and brighter perspective, which makes things easier for us to swallow. There are other Idioms though; like when an Ostrich sticks his head in the sand to hide, even though it just makes him a sitting duck. Are we hiding from the truth when we blind ourselves to the reality of our situation? What if we can get real help by turning our mole hills back into mountains? The Bible calls the Law of God the spiritual Mount Sinai; that’s no mole hill…

For instance, we think of what it takes to be Right with God as nothing more than a mole hill. ~ Have you ever murdered before? You say, “No; that’s an easy one”. Wait; before you step over that mole hill, have you ever Hated someone? Jesus said that Hatred is ‘Murder One’ committed in your heart. In this light, your mole hill is a ditch you’ve run into. Have you ever committed Adultery? You say, “I haven’t”. Wait before you climb out of the ditch! Jesus said that if you’ve Lusted for anyone you’ve committed Adultery with them in your Heart; without their permission. In this light you’ve stranded your Jeep on the steep side of Stone Mountain. You say, “But Stone Mountain is not a real Mountain!” Have you ever told a Lie? How big is the mole hill now?? ~ Those were only three of the Ten Commandments. If God judged you by his standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or Hell? You need rescuing…

Starting at the age of thirteen, Elias Nour rescued people from the side of Stone Mountain; he was their only Hope. ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! At the age of thirteen, Jesus was teaching wise men in the Temple; and went on to Save all who are stranded on the spiritual slopes of Mount Saini. He’s the only one to ever scale that Mountain, and will rescue all who cry for help. Jesus paid the price for Sin by dying on the Cross. He was buried three days and arose from the Grave; a feat greater than ascending Mount Everest. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, without counting on our climbing prowess. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus as your Lord God and join a Biblical Church. ~ If you believe in the most Liberal Grace that makes a real difference in your Salvation, then you must also believe in Total Inability. If you can't even get over a mole hill without Grace making ‘a real difference’, that's Total Inability. Our inability without God’s Grace is due to the Original sin of Adam in the Garden…

Jeremiah 13:23 NIV; Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
You're willing to report me for the "pitiful" word but not Theo for calling me "stupid". Go ahead with the report.

I'm pretty sure I've never called you "stupid". I tend not to name-call like that. That's why CARM has a rule that if you take issue with something someone said, you are required to provide a LINKED QUOTE (which you did not do, since I never called you "stupid"). Linked quotes prevent people like you from misrepresenting people like me.

I may have called an assertion of yours, "stupid", but that is NOWHERE near the same as calling a person, "stupid".
 

Synergy

Well-known member
Since we're Sinners of varying degrees, that degree for every Christian must have crossed the line;
Yes, it marks us all as sinners.
since every Christian needs God's help to believe, right?
Correct.
Why is this not Total Inability before Grace?
Because one can actually still be in possession of a God-given faculty that he has not totally seared yet, at least. For example, one might sear his mind but not his heart, or vice versa. With that in mind, Total Depravity is the Total Searing of all our God-given faculties. Not everyone has totally seared all their faculties so not everyone is totally depraved.

If one has totally seared all his faculties then that is a state of Total Depravity.
Even if we only need enough help for something easy; like stepping over a mole-hill?
We still need to make the decision to step over that mole-hill or it just won't happen.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I forgot you're such a learned theologian...always right and never wrong.

Yep... I can never learn from someone such as him, since they don't seem to have any critical thinking skills for evaluating truth from falsehood. They simply believe that whatever they believe must be true.

And sadly, there are (at least) three or four others here just like that.

I find that the more mature a Christian becomes, the more humble he becomes, and the more aware of his sins and his misunderstandings he becomes.

I believe everyone is mistaken in some forms of doctrine. And that must include myself, since I'm no better or more special than anyone else. The only problem is that I'm not presently aware of the errors in my theology. If I were, I would not longer hold to them.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
We still need to make the decision to step over that mole-hill or it just won't happen.
There lies the delima.....one has to make a decision. The question then becomes, what is the decision to accept Jesus or reject Jesus based upon? IQ? Where you grew up? What school you went too? What family you were born into?
The answer would have to be "none of the above". Salvation has nothing to do with the above.....unless God is using one or several of the situations to bring you to Jesus.
You in and of yourself can't come to Christ unless God brings you....you don't step over a moll-hill instead God drags you over the mole-hill.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Because one can actually still be in possession of a God-given faculty that he has not totally seared yet, at least. For example, one might sear his mind but not his heart, or vice versa.
When I read this, it seems you actually believe we don't need any help from God. My argument is pretty good; except for those who know it's a good point, but don't want to budge. Currently you say we need God's help to believe; and you say we don't need Gods help to believe. Other Calvinists will now ask you just what was the difference for you/those who believe, and those who didn't believe; was it you? You say the difference is a God given faculty; and I assume you mean a Natural faculty instead of a Supernatural faculty. If you mean we have a God-given Supernatural faculty, that's Help from God; and we're Totally Unable before Grace. The Law of Excluded Middle wants you to choose between your natural Total Ability or your natural Total Inability...

Would you consider anyone who believes as I described, even if it doesn't describe you, a person like that makes Grace no longer Grace?
 
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guest1

Guest
There lies the delima.....one has to make a decision. The question then becomes, what is the decision to accept Jesus or reject Jesus based upon? IQ? Where you grew up? What school you went too? What family you were born into?
The answer would have to be "none of the above". Salvation has nothing to do with the above.....unless God is using one or several of the situations to bring you to Jesus.
You in and of yourself can't come to Christ unless God brings you....you don't step over a moll-hill instead God drags you over the mole-hill.
Yes they forget that God is active and we are passive in regeneration. Those who are dead by definition are passive. :)
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Of course faith is a gift of God, enabling us to believe and follow Jesus. That does not diminish in any way our responsibility to choose and worship the Lord. Reformist theology must break out of its Zero Sum corner that it has painted itself into,
You are either lead by the Spirit and are obedient to the leading of the Spirit, which is not self choice.
or
You are making choices hoping that the right choice was made. That is being disobedient.

When I am lead to worship God, I do not have to make a choice, I am obedient to the leading of the Spirit.
you
You make a choice to worship God without the leading of the Spirit is worshiping in the flesh and not in Spirit.

What corner have you painted yourself into?
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Believe and worship go hand in hand.
But you do not worship in spirit and truth.
You make a choice to worship without being lead into worship by the Spirit of God.

It is all about you, you, you and your choices.

For the reformed it is all about GOD,GOD,GOD and His glory.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Your total inability to offer any counterargument once again proves Reformist theories wrong again.
Arguments have been presented accurately and precisely presented.
The ones lead by their free will choices and not the Spirit of God, cannot discern truth as it is spiritually discerned.

So you are just unable to understand the good arguments raised by the other poster.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Grace is efficacious if we choose to accept it as a gift, and we grow in it.
I believe that without God's Grace then we have no spiritual perception.
:oops:

You choose to accept a gift without perception of what it is, you then receive perception after accepting it and then choose to grow in it.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I believe that without God's Grace then we have no spiritual perception.

So if Total Depravity is having no spiritual perception then I believe that is possible but only for those who have chosen to sear their gifts of conscience, mind, heart, etc....
Those who choose to sear their gifts of conscience, mind, heart, etc....

Like these:
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Nice choice above.......
 

Manfred

Well-known member
We are all sinners to various degrees. For example, you might sear your mind but not your heart, or vice versa
Are you still an unredeemed sinner that is totally depraved?
How does one sin vary in degrees of veracity from another, or is it all combined?
 
G

guest1

Guest
But you do not worship in spirit and truth.
You make a choice to worship without being lead into worship by the Spirit of God.

It is all about you, you, you and your choices.

For the reformed it is all about GOD,GOD,GOD and His glory.
Amen living in His presence!
 
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