Refuting perfectionism

[Simpletruther]

Matthew 13
He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance

Matthew 16
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not ]prevail against
___________________
The deciples were spiritually connected to God. They were in God's spiritual kingdom. Yet were imperfect. Peter went on in the flesh to deny Jesus.

Moses also was clearly a spiritual friend of God, yet was chastised for his imperfection late in life.

Yes the spiritual man is perfect, but the flesh/old man that resides in us is not.

WE have the Spirit. But to he who has, more will be given, as God destroys the flesh within us. But this will not be complete until we are raised incorruptible.

 

[Gary Mac]

Matthew 13
He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance

Matthew 16
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not ]prevail against

Most look at this as Peter is the rock God builds His church on instead of seeing it as God is the rock that He builds His church on. Is actually what it portrays.

___________________
The deciples were spiritually connected to God.

Only after God came to them in an upper room and opens up who He really is.

They were in God's spiritual kingdom.

After they had received form God the same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 in an upper room, and not before.

Yet were imperfect.

Not after the upper room, they were perfected by Gods mind, or Spirit the mind is called.

Peter went on in the flesh to deny Jesus.

All of them did, not a single one of Jesus disciples came to be identified with Jesus in His trials and tribulations, not one, they all denied him.

Moses also was clearly a spiritual friend of God, yet was chastised for his imperfection late in life.

How so? I see it as God blessed him immensely.

Yes the spiritual man is perfect, but the flesh/old man that resides in us is not.

If that old man still exists and the new man of righteousness has not emerged than that spirit man has not formed in one at all. One cane be of God and be imperfect. One may be imperfect to another beliefs just as Jesus was imperfect to the ones who had him crucified for blaspheme and their imperfections of him. He was mad eo be sin for this very accusation. We are no different from the same at all.

WE have the Spirit. But to he who has, more will be given, as God destroys the flesh within us. But this will not be complete until we are raised incorruptible.

And Jesus described this incorruptible as born again. Receiving from God His perfections no different from when Jesus receieved Gods perfections in Matt 3:16. Until then Jesus was imperfect for he didnt even know God nor His heaven until God came to him and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man. And He does the very same in us all today who will recieve from Him the same as Jesus did.

1 John 3 - when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him and that does not include sin only perfection. Not many are born again in His account for born again. Most say well I follow Jesus so im a born again Christian and attend a church for a few hours once a week then act like hell the other 6 days a week. Like the country song, a bible in one hand and a bottle in the other.

 

[Simpletruther]

Most look at this as Peter is the rock God builds His church on instead of seeing it as God is the rock that He builds His church on. Is actually what it portrays.

Only after God came to them in an upper room and opens up who He really is.

After they had received form God the same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 in an upper room, and not before.

Not after the upper room, they were perfected by Gods mind, or Spirit the mind is called.

All of them did, not a single one of Jesus disciples came to be identified with Jesus in His trials and tribulations, not one, they all denied him.

How so? I see it as God blessed him immensely.

If that old man still exists and the new man of righteousness has not emerged than that spirit man has not formed in one at all. One cane be of God and be imperfect. One may be imperfect to another beliefs just as Jesus was imperfect to the ones who had him crucified for blaspheme and their imperfections of him. He was mad eo be sin for this very accusation. We are no different from the same at all.

And Jesus described this incorruptible as born again. Receiving from God His perfections no different from when Jesus receieved Gods perfections in Matt 3:16. Until then Jesus was imperfect for he didnt even know God nor His heaven until God came to him and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man. And He does the very same in us all today who will recieve from Him the same as Jesus did.

1 John 3 - when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him and that does not include sin only perfection. Not many are born again in His account for born again. Most say well I follow Jesus so im a born again Christian and attend a church for a few hours once a week then act like hell the other 6 days a week. Like the country song, a bible in one hand and a bottle in the other.

They were given the mysteries before the upper room. You are denying scripture.

 

[e v e 21]

Matthew 13
He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance

Matthew 16
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not ]prevail against
___________________
The deciples were spiritually connected to God. They were in God's spiritual kingdom. Yet were imperfect. Peter went on in the flesh to deny Jesus.

Moses also was clearly a spiritual friend of God, yet was chastised for his imperfection late in life.

Yes the spiritual man is perfect, but the flesh/old man that resides in us is not.

WE have the Spirit. But to he who has, more will be given, as God destroys the flesh within us. But this will not be complete until we are raised incorruptible.

the flesh/old man we reside IN = this body and its mind..

pauls term for it is fleshbody.

 

[Gary Mac]

They were given the mysteries before the upper room. You are denying scripture.

Yes they defiantly were given mysteries until the upper room when God opens up who He is and all of His heaven in them just as Jesus. was in mystery until God came to him and reveals Himself and all of His heaven in Matt 3:16. He didnt have a clue about God nor His heaven and was a mystery until God opened it for him.

The upper room revealed all of who God is and His heaven in them no different at all. And He does the very same in us all who will let Him come to you and be in you. Reality is when you as well as these see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him. 1 John 3. Not many believe Him in that however.

When one receives the mind of God there is noting hidden that was hidden and all of Gods heaven is open to you by God Himself.

This want new with Jesus at all. Many before him God opens up who He is and all of His heaven, gosh even Adam came to this knowledge in Gen 3:22 for he was the first to become like God to know this difference, not Jesus nor 120. Abraham Moses, received that same revelation from God Himself as Jesus did and we all do who is born again of God to have His same mind and walk in it as He walks in it with the same signs following us.

God doesnt hide His ways from us, most only reject His ways to be like Him for us. Most are to busy making laws to govern their gods instead.

 

[Simpletruther]

Yes they defiantly were given mysteries until the upper room when God opens up who He is and all of His heaven in them just as Jesus. was in mystery until God came to him and reveals Himself and all of His heaven in Matt 3:16. He didnt have a clue about God nor His heaven and was a mystery until God opened it for him.

The upper room revealed all of who God is and His heaven in them no different at all. And He does the very same in us all who will let Him come to you and be in you. Reality is when you as well as these see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him. 1 John 3. Not many believe Him in that however.

When one receives the mind of God there is noting hidden that was hidden and all of Gods heaven is open to you by God Himself.

This want new with Jesus at all. Many before him God opens up who He is and all of His heaven, gosh even Adam came to this knowledge in Gen 3:22 for he was the first to become like God to know this difference, not Jesus nor 120. Abraham Moses, received that same revelation from God Himself as Jesus did and we all do who is born again of God to have His same mind and walk in it as He walks in it with the same signs following us.

God doesnt hide His ways from us, most only reject His ways to be like Him for us. Most are to busy making laws to govern their gods instead.

So they were spiritually connected to God and were his children before the upper room.

The Father was directly revealing to them before the upper room.

 

[Gary Mac]

So they were spiritually connected to God and were his children before the upper room.

No they were not spiritually connected to God at all, didnt even know God nor His heaven until He came and opened it in them. Jesus went through that same process in Matt 3:16, he didnt know Gods Spirit nor His heaven until God came to him and opened all of in him just as He did in an upper room, in Adam Gen 3:22, Abraham, Moses, and all today who will recieve from God His mind instead of making doctrines of your own to regulate a belief about a god.

The Father was directly revealing to them before the upper room.

Oh no quite contrary. When Jesus went before trial and tribulation, not one of Jesus disciples came to be identified with God and flat out denied to be identified with Jesus in the Father. Read it. Jesus was a Lone Ranger until God came to his disciples and made them no different from who He made Jesus by the same mind be in you who was in Christ Jesus. That didnt happen at in any of his disciples at all until Jesus was gone.

Funny is -- some here has called me a lone ranger for the very same reason.

 

[Simpletruther]

No they were not spiritually connected to God at all, didnt even know God nor His heaven

That is a blatant untuth as scripture shows.

Matthew 13
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven

 

[Gary Mac]

That is a blatant untuth as scripture shows.

I see -- so perhaps you can explain what happened in an upper room when God came to them all and reveals who He is and His heaven in these people? You really dont have a clue what transpired there, that is very obvious. What do you think happened in Matt 3:16 if as you say God didnt reveal Himself in Jesus.

I do understand why you think what happened in these from Adam right down today when Goid reveals who He is in all of these is a blatan untruth.

Matthew 13
11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven

And there is only one way that can be given is from God Himself, not even Jesus could escape that fact in Matt 3:16. You just dont believe Jesus is all.

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear

By the mind of God be my own.

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven

As I said, there is no other way you nor anyone else can God be reveals unless it is by God Himself open your eyes and ears just as He did in Adam, Gen 3;22, Abraham, Moses, especially Jesus in Matt 3:16, 130 in an upper room and in me.

You are trying to be a christian by law instead of God Himself revealing in you the Christ to be Gods anointed one as He did in all of these.
It is pretty obvious that you know what it is to be of a religious mind but dont have a clue what it is to be of Christ anointed of God and like the Father of it.

 

[Simpletruther]

I see -- so perhaps you can explain what happened in an upper room when God came to them all and reveals who He is and His heaven in these people? You really dont have a clue what transpired there, that is very obvious. What do you think happened in Matt 3:16 if as you say God didnt reveal Himself in Jesus.

I do understand why you think what happened in these from Adam right down today when Goid reveals who He is in all of these is a blatan untruth.

And there is only one way that can be given is from God Himself, not even Jesus could escape that fact in Matt 3:16. You just dont believe Jesus is all.

By the mind of God be my own.

As I said, there is no other way you nor anyone else can God be reveals unless it is by God Himself open your eyes and ears just as He did in Adam, Gen 3;22, Abraham, Moses, especially Jesus in Matt 3:16, 130 in an upper room and in me.

You are trying to be a christian by law instead of God Himself revealing in you the Christ to be Gods anointed one as He did in all of these.
It is pretty obvious that you know what it is to be of a religious mind but dont have a clue what it is to be of Christ anointed of God and like the Father of it.

You are denying the timeline of scriptures.
All the above happened well before the upper room. And before they denied Jesus.

 

[Gary Mac]

You are denying the timeline of scriptures.

Cant answer that question can you LOL.

All the above happened well before the upper room. And before they denied Jesus.

Agreed, they followed for a time, then flat out denied him when the chips were down and they had to be accountable for their actions. You are just as these were up to that point of contact with God Himself and the fact that God came to them and opened up who He is in them. Your venture stops right there.

All ask you again but expect another detour.

perhaps you can explain what happened in an upper room when God came to them all and reveals who He is and His heaven in these people?

Do you know why you cant answer that? I do!

What do you think happened in Matt 3:16 if as you say God didnt reveal Himself in Jesus nor these?

 

[Simpletruther]

I see -- so perhaps you can explain what happened in an upper room when God came to them all and reveals who He is and His heaven in these people? You really dont have a clue what transpired there, that is very obvious. What do you think happened in Matt 3:16 if as you say God didnt reveal Himself in Jesus.

I do understand why you think what happened in these from Adam right down today when Goid reveals who He is in all of these is a blatan untruth.

And there is only one way that can be given is from God Himself, not even Jesus could escape that fact in Matt 3:16. You just dont believe Jesus is all.

By the mind of God be my own.

As I said, there is no other way you nor anyone else can God be reveals unless it is by God Himself open your eyes and ears just as He did in Adam, Gen 3;22, Abraham, Moses, especially Jesus in Matt 3:16, 130 in an upper room and in me.

You are trying to be a christian by law instead of God Himself revealing in you the Christ to be Gods anointed one as He did in all of these.
It is pretty obvious that you know what it is to be of a religious mind but dont have a clue what it is to be of Christ anointed of God and like the Father of it.

You just agreed they were given knowledge by Gid Himself (which was before the upper room) and were given eyes to see, , after you earlier said they couldnt see and didn't know anything of God and heaven until the upper room.

You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Theophilus]

No they were not spiritually connected to God at all, didnt even know God nor His heaven until He came and opened it in them. Jesus went through that same process in Matt 3:16, he didnt know Gods Spirit nor His heaven until God came to him and opened all of in him just as He did in an upper room, in Adam Gen 3:22, Abraham, Moses, and all today who will recieve from God His mind instead of making doctrines of your own to regulate a belief about a god.
.

This is one of the most heretical and blasphemous things I have read from a professing Christian about Jesus . To say Jesus went through the same process with the Father as the disciples is absurd. Jesus His whole life always did what He saw His Father doing and said exactly what His Father wanted Him to say. He was always in complete and perfect fellowship and communion with the Father. In Him there was no sin unlike the sinning disciples .

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So they were spiritually connected to God and were his children before the upper room.

The Father was directly revealing to them before the upper room.

Father has been "directly revealing" to folks all through the Old Testament. The Holy Spirit HAS ALWAYS been "with" people as He saw fit. but until John 20:22, The Holy Spirit was IN NOBODY other than Jesus (John 14:17).

 

[Theophilus]

Father has been "directly revealing" to folks all through the Old Testament. The Holy Spirit HAS ALWAYS been "with" people as He saw fit. but until John 20:22, The Holy Spirit was IN NOBODY other than Jesus (John 14:17).

Exactly Bob

 

[Unmerited]

The dual nature of Christ: that Christ is one person with two natures. The idea here is that Christ is vera homo, vera Deus, “truly man and truly God.” Christ has a true human nature and a true divine nature; these two natures are perfectly united in one person. He's the only perfect person I've ever heard of.

The two natures of Christ are indivisibly and perfectly united within the one person of Christ, such that there are not two persons, human and divine, but one divine-human person, the God-man.

For we do not have a High Priest who is unable to sympathize and understand our weaknesses and temptations, but One who has been tempted [knowing exactly how it feels to be human] in every respect as we are, yet without [committing any] sin. Hebrews 4:15

 

[Theophilus]

The dual nature of Christ: that Christ is one person with two natures. The idea here is that Christ is vera homo, vera Deus, “truly man and truly God.” Christ has a true human nature and a true divine nature; these two natures are perfectly united in one person. He's the only perfect person I've ever heard of.

The two natures of Christ are indivisibly and perfectly united within the one person of Christ, such that there are not two persons, human and divine, but one divine-human person, the God-man.

For we do not have a High Priest who is unable to sympathize and understand our weaknesses and temptations, but One who has been tempted [knowing exactly how it feels to be human] in every respect as we are, yet without [committing any] sin. Hebrews 4:15

Yes you gave a great summary of the true Christian faith concerning Christ . Gary believes in a gnostic jesus, a false christ .

 

[Gary Mac]

This is one of the most heretical and blasphemous things I have read from a professing Christian about Jesus . To say Jesus went through the same process with the Father as the disciples is absurd.

I see so Matt 3:167 is a lie?

Jesus His whole life always did what He saw His Father doing and said exactly what His Father wanted Him to say.

Then why in this world would God come to Jesus by His Spirit and open up who He is and all of His heaven in that man in Matt 3:16?

He was always in complete and perfect fellowship and communion with the Father.

Then why in this world would God come to Jesus by His Spirit and open up who He is and all of His heaven in that man in Matt 3:16?

In Him there was no sin unlike the sinning disciples .

There was no sin in these either after the received the same4 anointing from God as Jesus did. Up to that point Jesus was of the laws for sin and tought those laws for sin in the temples. He was without sin after Matt 3:16. Actually Jesus was made to be sin for people such as yourself who see Goids ways a the most blasphemous and heretical things you have ever heard.

Matt 3:16 is obviously heretical and blasphemous for you just as you stated. N o man is born with Gods Spirit, or mind, so obvious un Matt 3:16.

What religion do you belong to that says Matt 3:16 is blasphemous and didnt happen? I bet it is from some denominational creed -- right !!!

 

[Gary Mac]

You just agreed they were given knowledge by Gid Himself (which was before the upper room) and were given eyes to see,

No they were not given spiritual knowledge at all before the upper room event.

, after you earlier said they couldnt see and didn't know anything of God and heaven until the upper room.

That is correct and still holds the truth. Read it.

You are contradicting yourself.

No you are only editing what I actually said so suit your own ideas about your god, or gods, some here has three of them.

They followed Jesus but didnt adhere to Gods ways for them and flat out denied to be identified with Jesus in his trials and tribulations. Perhaps you can name just one that came to his defense in his trials and tribulations? Ill wait until you find one -- Fair enough?

 

[Gary Mac]

Father has been "directly revealing" to folks all through the Old Testament. The Holy Spirit HAS ALWAYS been "with" people as He saw fit. but until John 20:22, The Holy Spirit was IN NOBODY other than Jesus (John 14:17).

So Adan dudntr become like God to know this difference by the Spirit God is in Gen 3:22?

And the Spirit of God dint come to Abraham on the mountain and advise him?

And the Spirit of God didnt come to Moses on the mountain and gave him instructions directly by His Spirit?

SO what you are saying is it was a different God who came to Mary, Jesus, 120, and others, and all today who receives His same Spirit?

Tell me when God changed for what I read God never changes is the same in Adam that He was in Jesus and is the same ini us all today who has received the same knowledge from God Himself as. all of these did.

You act as if staring in Matthew that God became something else. Could it be from lack in receiving in you the same God as all of these did?
One cant know what they are void of.