Regeneration - A NT Doctrine

civic

Well-known member
Where does the Bible say David was so stupid that he thought the unregenerate had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit or that anyone had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before Pentecost?

You need to read the whole passage. He's talking about prophets who prophesied under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, not unregenerate people who had the Holy Spirit before Christ sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers.

No, but I'm sure it made you feel better.
no Peter declared that the OT prophets had the Spirit of Christ IN THEM. cf 1Peter 1:10-11.

he didn't say the spirit of Christ was upon them.

next.........................................................................................

hope this helps !!!
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Also I do not think we can make the " exception" the rule or the standard.

David pleaded with God in the Psalm 51 not to take away His Holy Spirit from him and that never happened.
Exactly.
Which means that David had God's Spirit with him.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Well there are far more problem with the position that just Saul

An examination of the NT teaching on regeneration shows

Regeneration is through the gospel

James 1:18 (NASB)
18 In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.


1 Peter 1:23 (NASB)
23 for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.



1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Predicated on the Resurrection of Christ

Romans 6:4 (KJV)
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12, 13 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Concurrent with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit

Ezekiel 36:25-27 (KJV)
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Only in Christ

1 John 5:12 (KJV)
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

available through faith in Christ

John 1:12 —KJV
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”

1 Pet. 1:18–25 —KJV
“Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
¶ For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
Hey Tom, please go back to my first couple of posts.

I included the Ezekiel 36 passage in my description.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
no Peter declared that the OT prophets had the Spirit of Christ IN THEM. cf 1Peter 1:10-11.
You're conflating the infilling/empowering of the Holy Spirit with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

"even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." - John 14:17

Note that Jesus says the Holy Spirit was with them, but was did not yet dwell in them.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
You're conflating the infilling/empowering of the Holy Spirit with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

"even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." - John 4:17

Note that Jesus says the Holy Spirit was with them, but was did not yet dwell in them.

According to Greek scholar A.T. Robertson, "dwells with you" and "will be in you" are not contrasted, but are paralleled, they are referring to the same thing, both in the present, and continuing into the future.

Robertson notes that the term for "with" is "para", and not merely "meta" (the latter perhaps supporting your interpretation better).
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
According to Greek scholar A.T. Robertson, "dwells with you" and "will be in you" are not contrasted, but are paralleled, they are referring to the same thing, both in the present, and continuing into the future.

Robertson notes that the term for "with" is "para", and not merely "meta" (the latter perhaps supporting your interpretation better).
First, thank you for disagreeing respectfully.

Second, yes, but I believe the grammar here is of Christ contrasting two things.

Third, there is also John 7:37-39, which says: "On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” 39Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (Emphasis mine)
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
"even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." - John 4:17

Btw, you should be careful with your citations... It's 14:17, not 4:17.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
According to Greek scholar A.T. Robertson, "dwells with you" and "will be in you" are not contrasted, but are paralleled, they are referring to the same thing, both in the present, and continuing into the future.

Robertson notes that the term for "with" is "para", and not merely "meta" (the latter perhaps supporting your interpretation better).
Yet there are other voices

ἐστίν] This was perhaps corrected to the future, because, though their knowledge of the Spirit proper to their complete state, and His dwelling, remaining, among them, had in some inferior sense begun,—His dwelling in them had not. See Hare, Mission of the Comforter, ii. note I. With the reading ἐστίν, the prolepsis is still stronger.

Henry Alford, Alford’s Greek Testament: An Exegetical and Critical Commentary, vol. 1 (Grand Rapids, MI: Guardian Press, 1976), 853.

Outward sense cannot apprehend the invisible Spirit; and the world has no personal experience of His presence and power; but ye, ὑμεῖς, have this experimental knowledge, “because He is even now abiding with you (has already begun His ministry; or, rather, has this for His characteristic that He remains with you, making you the object of His work), and shall be within you”

Marcus Dods, The Gospel of St. John (New York: George H. Doran Company, n.d.), 825.

Expositors Greek testament vol 1
 
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