Regeneration as Salvation

TomFL

Well-known member
regeneration. A biblical motif of salvation that emphasizes the rebirth or re-creation of fallen human beings by the indwelling Holy Spirit. One central biblical text depicting salvation as regeneration is Jesus’ conversation with Nicodemus in which he emphasized the necessity of being “born again” (Jn 3:1–21).

Stanley Grenz, David Guretzki, and Cherith Fee Nordling, Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1999), 101.

Notice How Jn 3:1-21 is consider as a whole''

The need to be born again

John 3:1–21 —KJV
Ҧ There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The question how can this be or How can one be born again

Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answer and the How

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


The How

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Regeneration/New Birth is part of Salvation, its effected by the Death of Christ. All for whom He died will be given New Birth by the Spirit ! Thats an advantage those who Christ died for have !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Yes it is and you cannot be saved without faith
Faith comes with, accompanies salvation. Thats why the writer of Hebrews writes Heb 6 9

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Faith accompanies Salvation, the Salvation the Spirit applies in New Birth 2 Thess 2 13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

See Salvation in one sense is the ability to believe the Truth of the Gospel, for naturally man cant do it, they are spiritually lost and blind, and the Gospel is hid from them 2 Cor 4 3
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
regeneration. A biblical motif of salvation that emphasizes the rebirth or re-creation of fallen human beings by the indwelling Holy Spirit. One central biblical text depicting salvation as regeneration is Jesus’ conversation with Nicodemus in which he emphasized the necessity of being “born again” (Jn 3:1–21).

Stanley Grenz, David Guretzki, and Cherith Fee Nordling, Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1999), 101.

Notice How Jn 3:1-21 is consider as a whole''

The need to be born again

John 3:1–21 —KJV
Ҧ There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The question how can this be or How can one be born again

Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

Jesus answer and the How

Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


The How

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”

So is it your purpose to try to pollute this forum by creating 10,000 separate threads on "regeneration"?

Seriously?!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So is it your purpose to try to pollute this forum by creating 10,000 separate threads on "regeneration"?

Seriously?!
Seriously indeed

You think exposition of regeneration from all different perspectives including Calvinism is polluting the forum

You need to deal with your denial that regeneration speaks of new life as even Calvinists admit
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Seriously indeed

You think exposition of regeneration from all different perspectives including Calvinism is polluting the forum

I think devoting 100 separate threads to regeneration when ONE will do, is polluting the thread, certainly.

Suppose I decided that every time I wanted to respond to a post in an existing thread, I did so by starting a new thread. You truly don't see the problem with that??!?!?!??!?!?!?

Yet you think we should blindly accept your errant opinions on theology?

You need to deal with your denial that regeneration speaks of new life as even Calvinists admit

I am to submit to God, the Bible ,and the Holy Spirit.
Not to you.
Not to any "theologian".
I have one Lord.
His name is Jesus Christ.
And you ain't Him.
So you need to get over yourself.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I think devoting 100 separate threads to regeneration when ONE will do, is polluting the thread, certainly

Well I have yet to produce 100
.

Suppose I decided that every time I wanted to respond to a post in an existing thread, I did so by starting a new thread. You truly don't see the problem with that??!?!?!??!?!?!?

Yet you think we should blindly accept your errant opinions on theology?

Funny but you have produced no evidence if error

Contrariwise your own denial of regeneration as new life was demonstrated as error by all perspectives
I am to submit to God, the Bible ,and the Holy Spirit.
Not to you.
Not to any "theologian".
I have one Lord.
His name is Jesus Christ.
And you ain't Him.
So you need to get over yourself.

If you submit to God you should submit to his word

regeneration is new life how else can one look at the phrase born again

and new life comes from faith

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

So get over yourself
 

TomFL

Well-known member
<sigh>

I do.
That’s the reason I reject your false teachings.
So get over yourself.



So to “get over [my]self”, that means I have to blindly accept your false teachings?

Sorry, NEVER gonna happen.
You failed to prove anything false

and it appear even other Calvinist contradict you
 

ReverendRV

Active member
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.”
Question; We're Justified through Faith, right?

Question; Regeneration follows Faith, right?

Question; If someone is Justified but not Regenerated, would Jesus have to Save them? Why would a Justified person legally NEED to be Regenerated?

After all our discussion, I think you will answer by saying it's impossible for the Faithful to not be Regenerated, and I agree; but this gets us to a discussion about the Solas, IE through Faith Alone. Since Regeneration is not a Sola, why say something like "Regeneration as Salvation"? ~ John the Baptist; he died under the Old Covenant and you've been saying the Old Covenant Saints weren't Regenerated. For John the Baptist; Regeneration couldn't be a part of Salvation then, and shows we're Justified through Faith Alone. So why would Regeneration AFTER Faith Matter to John? If Regeneration after Faith isn't a part of Justification (IE legal Pardon/Salvation Proper), why would you Mandate that Regeneration has to be Salvation, before we're Justified when we believe?

This should be a Sola Fide discussion...
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Question; We're Justified through Faith, right?

Question; Regeneration follows Faith, right?

Question; If someone is Justified but not Regenerated, would Jesus have to Save them? Why would a Justified person need to be Regenerated?

After all our discussion, I think you will answer by saying it's impossible for the Faithful to not be Regenerated, and I agree; but this gets us to a discussion about the Solas, IE through Faith Alone. Since Regeneration is not a Sola, why say something like "Regeneration as Salvation"? ~ John the Baptist; he died under the Old Covenant and you've been saying the Old Covenant Saints weren't Regenerated. For John the Baptist; Regeneration couldn't be a part of Salvation then, and shows we're Justified through Faith Alone. So why would Regeneration AFTER Faith Matter? If Regeneration after Faith is not a part of 'Justification (IE legal Pardon/Salvation Proper)', why would you Mandate that Regeneration 'has to be' Salvation before we're Justified when we believe?

This should be a Sola Fide discussion...
Justification is a legal term

It legally changes ones status as a sinner

He however still has a sin nature. For that he needs regeneration

Regeneration is the onset salvation

It provides new life and a new heart

and is a spiritual resurrection from death to life
 

ReverendRV

Active member
Justification is a legal term

It legally changes ones status as a sinner

He however still has a sin nature. For that he needs regeneration

Regeneration is the onset salvation

It provides new life and a new heart

and is a spiritual resurrection from death to life
Amen and amen...

But when we're Justified, Regeneration would have to be a Fruit of Justification according to you; right? A Fruit; not the close of the Case for Justification, right? A Fruit of Justification, not the Seed of Justification; right?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Amen and amen...

But when we're Justified, Regeneration would have to be a Fruit of Justification according to you; right? A Fruit; not the close of the Case for Justification, right? A Fruit of Justification, not the Seed of Justification; right?
A fruit? I don't think I would put it that way

It is a work of God whereby the Holy Spirit produces new life and a changed heart
 

ReverendRV

Active member
A fruit? I don't think I would put it that way

It is a work of God whereby the Holy Spirit produces new life and a changed heart
I use words like that to zero in on definitions and understandings. Of course we agree on what you just said. I'll let it rest, you know how it is; this could have been for the Lurkers since you and I usually get close without agreeing...
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I use words like that to zero in on definitions and understandings. Of course we agree on what you just said. I'll let it rest, you know how it is; this could have been for the Lurkers since you and I usually get close without agreeing...
OK

I am typically busy enough
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
rev

Why would a Justified person legally NEED to be Regenerated?

So they can know of their legal Justification and begin to live by Faith, for the Justified shall live by Faith Rom 1 17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Thats just my input to that part of the question, Im not taking sides with the other poster, let that be clear !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
rev



So they can know of their legal Justification and begin to live by Faith, for the Justified shall live by Faith Rom 1 17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Thats just my input to that part of the question, Im not taking sides with the other poster, let that be clear !


Regeneration is needed to overcome the sin nature
 
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