"Regeneration/Born Again" in Calvinism / Abortion comparison.

TomFL

Well-known member
Yes, I've witnessed that same smugness...
Have you witnessed the ad hominem from your side
If winning means that much to him, let him claim victory. He is just a waste of my time, expecting him to actually discuss things. If that’s how he claims victory, it matches his theology.
See rather than acknowledge that he was responded to and dealing with the response he quits and indulges in ad hominem

typical
 

TomFL

Well-known member
He's going to say he won and you can't answer him...

But you can't stay here all night, and for some strange reason there's an unspoken rule that the last Poster wins...
And that would be a true statement

He did not address my argument on regeneration from Col 2:12,13

nor did he address my argument from John 12:40 and God hardening men so they could not believe

Instead he ran to a irrelevant passage about Pharoah which had nothing at all to do with hardening men so they could not believe

and its about truth
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
And that would be a true statement

He did not address my argument on regeneration from Col 2:12,13

nor did he address my argument from John 12:40 and God hardening men so they could not believe

Instead he ran to a irrelevant passage about Pharoah which had nothing at all to do with hardening men so they could not believe

and its about truth
@Carbon
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Tom, I see how you are. Until you learn to be respectable of others posts and replies, I won’t waste any more of my time with you. And you need to learn to consider others posts as well.

I’m putting you on ignore, as others should.

I’ll check back in a while on you.

until then, enjoy yourself.
What a laugh

You had falsely claimed I did not address your verses but I showed that I had multiple times

when I pointed it out instead of acknowledging it you pull the stunt above

and you want to talk about respecting replies ?

................................................................

again already done see below


Noted Eph 2:8 does not say faith is the gift

quoted A.T. Robinson who supports that argument with Greek grammar

quoted Calvin in the past who also agreed faith is not the gift of the passage

quoted scripture which shows eternal life (salvation) is the gift of God

Note Phi 1:29 speaks of God granting faith as he does suffering

permits allows enables

Noted many times God grants faith through the gospel

quoting Rom 10:10-17


2pe does not say how faith was obtained

other verses do not speak of saving faith

now it would be a total fabrication should you deny you were answered
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
How does a baby live without "choosing" to beat their heart?
How does a baby breathe without "choosing" to inhale with their lungs?

Even as an adult, I usually don't do those things by "choice".

Not everything we do requires a "choice".

But we were born .....

A lot of auto ..... goes along with that.

are you trying to override what was already given to us?
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Tom
Your turn. Answer the scriptures I gave you about faith being a gift.

Do you read Tom?

Some people think grace is what is gifted.

If that is not true, then faith becomes little more then a spiritual abduction.


Kind of puts a bad light on God ... or god is you prefer.
 
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Manfred

Well-known member
So now you contradict yourself

Just previously you spoke of the power of the gospel and now you are back to having a powerless gospel

However you just totally missed the fact that passage concerns the time before the gospels revelation by the Spirit to the apostles who would now preach it to all



s
Where?

You are the one that thinks everyone receives Revelation that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and yet the majority of people hear the gospel and never receive revelation and perish.

That is not because the gospel is powerless, false teacher.
The gospel will be revealed to exactly each person the Son CHOOSES to reveal it to.

Peter's very first sermon was not to a crowd of exactly 3000 people. Not all people present were cut to the heart.
You just want to push your hidden agenda of telling people they are saved by their own power and not the power of God.

It is plain for all to see.

32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, We will hear you again about this. 33 So Paul went out from their midst. 34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

False teachers say all receive a full revelation that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and then the majority mock Him....
Shameful.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Kind of puts a bad light on God ... or god is you prefer.
You seem to be the one preferring god to God as you falsely teach God is not sovereign in His choices, in whom He saves and whom He condemns but you are your own god in that you and others choose to either save or condemn yourselves through self generated faith or alternatively pretending to not believe.

You seem to have trouble figuring out which...

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

So go right ahead with your human will and exertion, it is meaningless. Do you think it puts your god in a bad light?
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Where?

You are the one that thinks everyone receives Revelation that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and yet the majority of people hear the gospel and never receive revelation and perish.

That is not because the gospel is powerless, false teacher.
The gospel will be revealed to exactly each person the Son CHOOSES to reveal it to.

Peter's very first sermon was not to a crowd of exactly 3000 people. Not all people present were cut to the heart.
You just want to push your hidden agenda of telling people they are saved by their own power and not the power of God.

It is plain for all to see.

32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, We will hear you again about this. 33 So Paul went out from their midst. 34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

False teachers say all receive a full revelation that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and then the majority mock Him....
Shameful.

so no one can ever live again.

And you convert your children for their not mattering.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
You seem to be the one preferring god to God as you falsely teach God is not sovereign in His choices, in whom He saves and whom He condemns but you are your own god in that you and others choose to either save or condemn yourselves through self generated faith or alternatively pretending to not believe.

You seem to have trouble figuring out which...

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

So go right ahead with your human will and exertion, it is meaningless. Do you think it puts your god in a bad light?

When your god say's no one else can be ......

And YOU call that mercy ......

What is that ....

But a condemnation.

and you want to convert and convert and convert .....

Why are you converting great God?

errr ... they are not supposed to not matter.

For our conversion thingy.

Is that love ......

Kind of ....

We are just doing our own love thingy.

So you want to convert people to your love.

does that mean you love them?


Errrr .. not really we mostly love ourselves.

and want to convert them to our love.
 
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Manfred

Well-known member
You not only have a problem interpreting scripture
Scripture is revealed to those who have the indwelling Spirit, it is false teachers who spin their own interpretation onto scripture.

Scripture is clear in that faith rests in the power of God and not in your own power.

So speak plainly false teacher, does YOUR faith rest in your own power? So far you have not denied it, and I am certain you will not deny it again.
Your faith is worthless, as it rests in your own worthless power....
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Nonsensical garbage based on a troubled mind and emotionalism.

so your children are dead ... needing to be converted.

Hey god ......we had a child again; what do we with that.

No worries bro .... they don't matter just convert them.

Ok ... thanks god .....

errrr .... god .... I kind of thought my children kind of mattered.

God replies ..... we are into the conversion thingy.

god ..... does that mean they matter ....?

errr .... not necessarily.

are you a Calvinist god?

No God cannot be a clavinet .....

Can I ever liver god ....

We prefer you do not live.

So you are into chains of bondage ....

Ya ..... our hope is no one matters ever again.

so you are a Calvinist?

Kind of ..... we like to take advantage telling people they do not matter.

So who can matter god?

Mostly us ...

Do you want to repent?
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Scripture is revealed to those who have the indwelling Spirit, it is false teachers who spin their own interpretation onto scripture.

Scripture is clear in that faith rests in the power of God and not in your own power.

So speak plainly false teacher, does YOUR faith rest in your own power? So far you have not denied it, and I am certain you will not deny it again.
Your faith is worthless, as it rests in your own worthless power....r
Scripture was supernaturally revealed to those who had the Spirit

They in turn were commission to preach what the Spirit showed them so that others may know as well.

Did you imagine God was commissioning what was useless

Further your theology of a powerless gospel is rejected by scripture

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If there is a false teacher here it is you who cannot read scripture in context or accurately post what others are saying

I have denied multiple times that faith rests in ones on power. Faith rests is ones object of faith and that is God and his power. You just don't know what you are talking about or don't care enough to accurately present what has been stated
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Where?

You are the one that thinks everyone receives Revelation that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and yet the majority of people hear the gospel and never receive revelation and perish.

That is not because the gospel is powerless, false teacher.
The gospel will be revealed to exactly each person the Son CHOOSES to reveal it to.

No the gospel is not powerless but your theology makes it so and that makes you a denier of scripture

You holding men can understand it contrary to God's very own word



Ephesians 3:1-4 (KJV)
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

John 1:6-7 (KJV)
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If men cannot understand scripture

why did God harden men lest they believe

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

If they had no ability to believe

similarly

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Why does Jesus speak of men closing their eyes lest they should see and their heart growing hardened if they were born hardened to start with

if they had no ability to see and born already hardened

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why employ parables to hide truth from those who cannot know it ?

Why does the god of this world blind those who have no ability to see ?

2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJV)
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Manfred said:

Where?

You are the one that thinks everyone receives Revelation that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and yet the majority of people hear the gospel and never receive revelation and perish.


What I do state is that the revelation of Christ is for all people as it is to be preached to all people and written down in scripture for all people

Learn to correctly extol that and stop straw manning
 

Manfred

Well-known member
so your children are dead ... needing to be converted.

Hey god ......we had a child again; what do we with that.

No worries bro .... they don't matter just convert them.

Ok ... thanks god .....

errrr .... god .... I kind of thought my children kind of mattered.

God replies ..... we are into the conversion thingy.

god ..... does that mean they matter ....?

errr .... not necessarily.

are you a Calvinist god?

No God cannot be a clavinet .....

Can I ever liver god ....

We prefer you do not live.

So you are into chains of bondage ....

Ya ..... our hope is no one matters ever again.

so you are a Calvinist?

Kind of ..... we like to take advantage telling people they do not matter.

So who can matter god?

Mostly us ...

Do you want to repent?
NWRT

Nothing but the ramblings of an emotionally unstable mind.

You think God does not condemn?
Wake up
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Scripture was supernaturally revealed to those who had the Spirit
I am talking about salvation, and the revelation that Jesus Christ is your personal Lord and Savior. If everyone had that revelation by the power of deduction then why do they deduce they would rather go to hell.

Your false teachings are so muddled, you don't know that God is a personal God and that He has relationship with individuals. He personally brings revelation through the Holy Spirit. That is why faith rests in the power of God and not as you falsely teach in the power of self.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I am talking about salvation, and the revelation that Jesus Christ is your personal Lord and Savior. If everyone had that revelation by the power of deduction then why do they deduce they would rather go to hell.

Your false teachings are so muddled, you don't know that God is a personal God and that He has relationship with individuals. He personally brings revelation through the Holy Spirit. That is why faith rests in the power of God and not as you falsely teach in the power of self.
Why is there no quotation of what was stated ?

Could it be you are not capable of addressing it and or have distorted what was stated ?

Answer something for a change

Is the gospel to be preached to all peoples ?

Yes or no

Is Christ revealed in the scriptures

Yes or no

Now here is what you ignored

........................................

Scripture was supernaturally revealed to those who had the Spirit

They in turn were commission to preach what the Spirit showed them so that others may know as well.

Did you imagine God was commissioning what was useless

Further your theology of a powerless gospel is rejected by scripture

John 20:31 (KJV 1900)

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900)

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900)

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:

It shall not return unto me void,

But it shall accomplish that which I please,

And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900)

7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.

Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900)

130 The entrance of thy words giveth light;

It giveth understanding unto the simple.

Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV)
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

If there is a false teacher here it is you who cannot read scripture in context or accurately post what others are saying

I have denied multiple times that faith rests in ones on power. Faith rests is ones object of faith and that is God and his power. You just don't know what you are talking about or don't care enough to accurately present what has been stated

...................................

Why have you not addressed it ?

If it is false teaching why can't you rebut it ?

Is it you are only able to offer rhetoric and not able to handle scripture ?
 
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