Regeneration through Faith in the gospel

Newbirth

Well-known member
Yes. And the word "faith" clearly implies belief.
What part of faith is belief do you not understand? Faith and belief mean the same thing so they don't have to imply each other. It is like saying a pistol implies a handgun. You are playing smart with foolishness. A pistol is a handgun.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
What part of faith is belief do you not understand? Faith and belief mean the same thing so they don't have to imply each other. It is like saying a pistol implies a handgun. You are playing smart with foolishness. A pistol is a handgun.

Bless your heart.

If "Faith and belief mean the same thing", then they must logically imply one another too. That's how logic works and what synonymous means. They logically entail the other; Understand?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Agreed. Faith would be what results from hearing and believing the word of God.
You are playing smart with foolishness...What you said is Belief would be what results from hearing and believing the word of God. So you did not agree with me you just babbled. If you said ... Faith would be what results from hearing, then we are in agreement.
All believers believe their faith and belief in God originates in and with God.
More babble ...you just said... All believers believe their belief and belief in God originates in and with God. Since faith and belief means the same thing.
All believers believe their saving belief was a gift of God and came from God.
I don't have a problem with that as long as they agree their belief came by hearing the word of God.
And if you disbelieve this, then you can't be a believer.
Believing what you wrote has nothing to do with being a believer. It is believing that Jesus Christ is the son of God that makes us believers.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Bless your heart.

If "Faith and belief mean the same thing", then they must logically imply one another too. That's how logic works and what synonymous means. They logically entail the other; Understand?
No, it does not. To imply is to make an indirect expression. What you are doing is using two words that mean the same thing therefore there is no need to imply since they both have the same meaning.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
I have never been able to get them to answer where faith and belief came from or originated.
That is because you are not reading the answers. Faith comes by hearing the word of God... I wrote that to you many times. But it is also written in the scriptures.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Responses like this is very dishonest.
How so?
What faith does the natural man have in God?
The faith that comes by hearing the word of God.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
because we / they do not know ? there are many unknowns out there... and good ideas too. but if we really start to think we know (too much) before really seeking the truth from God... and continuing to seek even while finding some here... some there... ("for we know in part" not in whole possibly yet and for an unknown time -- of seeking)

.... then we inadvertently can shut ourselves off from really learning truth -- more and more... instead of just staying with some parts correct -- some parts incorrect and/ or undefined or part incorrect / and part true . "let not many of you become teachers" -- because we can be very wrong if we really think we know -- but don't know that we don't know....
How do we not know where faith comes from when the scripture says Faith comes by hearing the word of God?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
No, it does not. To imply is to make an indirect expression. What you are doing is using two words that mean the same thing therefore there is no need to imply since they both have the same meaning.

Strawman and projection. It is you who doesn't know how logic works.

The indirect expression here is that they are two different words, but they mean the same thing, as that is what synonymous means, thus they logically entail one another too.
If two different words are synonymous of one another, then they must logically entail one another too.

It tells you below in Verse 21 why some who "hear" don't get to know the word of God.

But they were not all obedient to the good tidings, for Isaiah saith, `Lord, who did give credence to our report?' so then the faith [is] by a report, and the report through a saying of God, but I say, Did they not hear? yes, indeed -- `to all the earth their voice went forth, and to the ends of the habitable world their sayings.'
But I say, Did not Israel know? first Moses saith, `I will provoke you to jealousy by [that which is] not a nation; by an unintelligent nation I will anger you,' and Isaiah is very bold, and saith, `I was found by those not seeking Me; I became manifest to those not inquiring after Me;' and unto Israel He saith, `All the day I did stretch out My hands unto a people unbelieving and gainsaying.' (Romans 10:15-21)
 

Tercon

Well-known member
How so?

The faith that comes by hearing the word of God.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

If your faith and belief didn't come from God, then where does your faith and belief come from?
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Strawman and projection. It is you who doesn't know how logic works.
You don't even know what those terms mean
The indirect expression here is that they are two different words, but they mean the same thing, as that is what synonymous means, thus they logically entail one another too.
Rubbish there is no indirect expression in your statement where you used faith and belief.
If two different words are synonymous of one another, then they must logically entail one another too.
You don't even know what entail means.
It tells you below in Verse 21 why some who "hear" don't get to know the word of God.
But they were not all obedient to the good tidings, for Isaiah saith, `Lord, who did give credence to our report?' so then the faith [is] by a report, and the report through a saying of God, but I say, Did they not hear? yes, indeed -- `to all the earth their voice went forth, and to the ends of the habitable world their sayings.'
But I say, Did not Israel know? first Moses saith, `I will provoke you to jealousy by [that which is] not a nation; by an unintelligent nation I will anger you,' and Isaiah is very bold, and saith, `I was found by those not seeking Me; I became manifest to those not inquiring after Me;' and unto Israel He saith, `All the day I did stretch out My hands unto a people unbelieving and gainsaying.' (Romans 10:15-21)
Then Israelites are unbelievers...Are you an Israelite? The scripture just called you an unbeliever who denies and contradicts the scripture.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Irrelevant. You have already heard and still disbelieve belief is necessary for faith to occur.
Lol, since faith and belief mean the same thing, you just said, You have already heard and still have no faith. faith is necessary for faith to occur.
Does knowing God include or exclude belief?
The issue here is faith, not knowing God. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. You are conflating two different things.
 

fltom

Well-known member
No regeneration then no faith to receive the good news message! Believing God is not salvation but rather salvation is believing God! God bless you. :)
You got it backwards

and you ignored the scriptures which show the reverse

 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
You got it backwards

and you ignored the scriptures which show the reverse

Thanks for your feedback! God bless you. :)
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Since I didn’t say that natural man has faith in God, it is you that is having response issues!

I have said that natural man has a demonstrable capacity for faith, but that it is in the wrong thing. That is being quite honest!

Doug
Surely in a discussion like this faith is assumed to be in God and a lack of faith the same.

Your answer is thus nothing more than smoke and mirrors and moot.

The topic is whether the natural man has faith in God, and your attempt at obscuring is noted.
It seems that most Arminians are quite adapt at doing only that and cannot commit to saying that the natural unregenerate man does not understand spiritual truths, and that they have no faith, and cannot generate a saving faith from self.
 
Top