brightfame52
Well-known member
Salvation which is new life brings faith. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit which gives life.
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Regeneration through Faith in the gospel
- Thread starter TomFL
- Start date
brightfame52
Well-known member
Lol nothing changes, faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22You just ignored all that was written
No Spirit ? then no fruit
No faith ? then no Spirit
John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
Faith is required before receiving the Spirit and his fruit
making your claim illogical
Your problem is one of interpretation as shown by many commentators even Calvinist commentators
Faith. πιστις, here used for fidelity — punctuality in performing promises, conscientious carefulness in preserving what is committed to our trust, in restoring it to its proper owner, in transacting the business confided to us, neither betraying the secret of our friend, nor disappointing the confidence of our employer.
Adam Clarke Commentary
“The word here may be used in the sense of fidelity, and may denote that the Christian will be a faithful man—a man faithful to his word and promises; a man who can be trusted or confided in. It is probable that the word is used in this sense because the object of the apostle is not to speak of the feelings which we have towards God, so much as to illustrate the influences of the Spirit in directing and controlling our feelings towards men. True religion makes a man faithful. The Christian is faithful as a man; faithful as a neighbour, friend, father, husband, son. He is faithful to his contracts; faithful to his promises. No man can be a Christian who is not thus faithful; and all pretensions to being under the influences of the Spirit, when such fidelity does not exist, are deceitful and vain.
(Albert Barnes, Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, Accordance electronic ed. (Altamonte Springs: OakTree Software, 2006), paragraph 22614.)
Faith means truth, and is contrasted with cunning, deceit, and falsehood, as peace is with quarrels and contentions.
Calvin's commentary
faith — “faithfulness”; opposed to “heresies” [BENGEL]. ALFORD refers to 1 Corinthians 13:7, “Believeth all things”: faith in the widest sense, toward God and man. “Trustfulness” [CONYBEARE and HOWSON].
JFB commentary
praise_yeshua
Active member
All right Mr. Parrot. Enjoy keep repeating yourself.Salvation which is new life brings faith. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit which gives life.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Name calling isn't going to help you. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit.All right Mr. Parrot. Enjoy keep repeating yourself.
praise_yeshua
Active member
Name calling isn't going to help you. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit.
I used it descriptively. It really doesn't qualify as "name calling". See how there are nuances to words? You refuse to recognize the nuances associated with the word faith. I've tried to get you to. You're just hurting yourself the way you repeat a verse as if there isn't any possible way you could be wrong about it. Again. Enjoy.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Does not matter. And again faith is a fruit of the Spirit, He sanctified unto belief of the truth which is faith 2 Thess 2:13I used it descriptively. It really doesn't qualify as "name calling". See how there are nuances to words? You refuse to recognize the nuances associated with the word faith. I've tried to get you to. You're just hurting yourself the way you repeat a verse as if there isn't any possible way you could be wrong about it. Again. Enjoy.
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
praise_yeshua
Active member
Again. Faith grows and God increases OUR faith. Through the Spirit of God faith is perfected. That doesn't mean that faith doesn't exist until it is gifted to man by the Spirit.Does not matter. And again faith is a fruit of the Spirit, He sanctified unto belief of the truth which is faith 2 Thess 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
brightfame52
Well-known member
It doesn't matter faith to believe the Gospel is the fruit of the Spirit.Again. Faith grows and God increases OUR faith. Through the Spirit of God faith is perfected. That doesn't mean that faith doesn't exist until it is gifted to man by the Spirit.
praise_yeshua
Active member
Now we are getting somewhere. Are you admitting that Faith given by the Spirit is different than other kinds of faith?It doesn't matter faith to believe the Gospel is the fruit of the Spirit.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Sanctification of the Spirit, which I believe is synonymous with the new birth, precedes and produces belief in the truth.Now we are getting somewhere. Are you admitting that Faith given by the Spirit is different than other kinds of faith?
brightfame52
Well-known member
I'm speaking about the faith to believe the Gospel comes from newbirth. If one has not been born again then they don't have the ability to hear and believe the Gospel. Regeneration before faith. That's what I am talking about so be clear about it!Now we are getting somewhere. Are you admitting that Faith given by the Spirit is different than other kinds of faith?
praise_yeshua
Active member
Okay. Your conflating things. Lets go slow. Do you recognize that faith exist apart from the imparting of faith referenced by Gal 5:22?I'm speaking about the faith to believe the Gospel comes from newbirth. If one has not been born again then they don't have the ability to hear and believe the Gospel. Regeneration before faith. That's what I am talking about so be clear about it!
It is a simple question. In otherwords there is more than one kind of faith?
You are still ignoring the factLol nothing changes, faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
that without the Spirit's indwelling there is no fruit
And the Spirit is not given until one believes
John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
I'm speaking about what the op says.Okay. Your conflating things. Lets go slow. Do you recognize that faith exist apart from the imparting of faith referenced by Gal 5:22?
It is a simple question. In otherwords there is more than one kind of faith?
brightfame52
Well-known member
You ignoring the fact that faith is the fruit of the Spirit. No Spirit indwelling then no faithYou are still ignoring the fact
that without the Spirit's indwelling there is no fruit
And the Spirit is not given until one believes
John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
praise_yeshua
Active member
Okay. Keep deflecting. ThanksI'm speaking about what the op says.
Wrong continued faithfulness and not initial faith is in view in Gal 5:22 as you were shown previouslyYou ignoring the fact that faith is the fruit of the Spirit. No Spirit indwelling then no faith
otherwise you contradict scripture
without the Spirit's indwelling there is no fruit
And the Spirit is not given until one believes
John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
Nothing there about faith not being the fruit of the Spirit!Wrong continued faithfulness and not initial faith is in view in Gal 5:22 as you were shown previously
otherwise you contradict scripture
without the Spirit's indwelling there is no fruit
And the Spirit is not given until one believes
John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
Google definition of faith and faithfulness:
What is the difference between faith and faithfulness? Faith is belief, assurance of God's word and all that he has done. Faithfulness is living in accord with that truth. In other words, faith leads to faithfulness.
What is the difference between faith and faithfulness? Faith is belief, assurance of God's word and all that he has done. Faithfulness is living in accord with that truth. In other words, faith leads to faithfulness.
You failed to address the pointNothing there about faith not being the fruit of the Spirit!
Wrong continued faithfulness and not initial faith is in view in Gal 5:22 as you were shown previously
otherwise you contradict scripture
without the Spirit's indwelling there is no fruit
And the Spirit is not given until one believes
John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
and you do not deal with the contradiction your claim involves you in