Regeneration through Faith in the gospel

brightfame52

Well-known member
You failed to address the point

Wrong continued faithfulness and not initial faith is in view in Gal 5:22 as you were shown previously

otherwise you contradict scripture


without the Spirit's indwelling there is no fruit

And the Spirit is not given until one believes

John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”

and you do not deal with the contradiction your claim involves you in
Faith and faithfulness are the same. Faithfulness is the mere prolongation of Faith
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Google definition of faith and faithfulness:

What is the difference between faith and faithfulness? Faith is belief, assurance of God's word and all that he has done. Faithfulness is living in accord with that truth. In other words, faith leads to faithfulness.

Among other meanings

1. that which causes trust and faith—a. faithfulness, reliability (X., An. 1, 6, 3; 3, 3, 4; Aristot., Eth. Eud, 7, 2 p. 1237b, 12; Polyb. 7, 12, 9; 38, 1, 8 al.; Herodian 2, 14, 4 al.; Dit., Syll.3 675, 22, Or. 557, 16; PTebt. 27, 6; 51 [II BC]; POxy. 494, 9; 705, 32; Ps 32:4; Pr 12:22; Jos., Ant. 2, 61; Test. Ash, 7:7) w. κρίσις and ἔλεος Mt 23:23. (Opp. ἀπιστία as Hes., Op. 370) τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ καταργεῖν nullify the faithfulness of God (cf. Ps 32:4; Hos 2:22) Ro 3:3. πᾶσαν π. ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἀγαθήν show all good faith (fulness) Tit 2:10 (cf. BGU 314, 19 μετὰ πίστεως ἀγαθῆς). W. other virtues Gal 5:22

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 662.

eternal salvation in the kingdom of God. 1C the religious beliefs of Christians. 1D belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same. 2 fidelity, faithfulness. 2A the character of one who can be relied on.

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

A. Greek Usage.
I. Classical.
1. pistós, which is attested first, means a. “trusting” (also with the nuance of “obedient”) and b. “trustworthy,” i.e., faithful, reliable.


Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, and Geoffrey William Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans, 1985), 849.

Pistis, then, implies complete loyalty (1 Tim 1:5, pisteōs anypokritou; P.Abinn. 59, 17: “I, Plas, will restore to you completely, in all loyalty”; P.Mert. 90, 12: pisteōs kai epieikias charin). Heb 10:22 links fullness of faith and a true heart (alēthinos), in other words, sincerity and fidelity, just as the papyri link pistis and alētheia; P.Oxy. 70, 4: “every valid written contract has pistis and alētheia” (pasa kyria engraphos synallagē pistin kai alētheian echei); P.Flor. 32 b 14: “I swear … that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (exomnymi … ex alētheias kai pisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); P.Stras. 152, 14: “that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (ex alētheias kai peisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); BGU 1151, 17. Cf. 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Tim 2:7; Titus 1:1. The pistos anēr is a man worthy of confidence (1 Tim 1:12), loyal citizen, faithful friend, someone who is trusted: “if you find someone who is completely trustworthy among those who are with you” (ean tina heurēs kata parontas echonta peistēn pollēn, P.Fay. 122, 22); “being well-disposed and showing complete fidelity toward me” (eunoousē moi kai pasan pistin moi endeiknymenē, P.Oxy. 494, 9); “thanks to his kindness, his faithfulness, and his family ties” (eunoia kai pisti kai tē tou genous oikeotēti, P.Tebt. 326, 10); BGU 326, col. I, 15; P.Lips. 28, 31: “to watch over … with noble fidelity” (

Ceslas Spicq and James D. Ernest, Theological Lexicon of the New Testament (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1994), 114–115.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Among other meanings

1. that which causes trust and faith—a. faithfulness, reliability (X., An. 1, 6, 3; 3, 3, 4; Aristot., Eth. Eud, 7, 2 p. 1237b, 12; Polyb. 7, 12, 9; 38, 1, 8 al.; Herodian 2, 14, 4 al.; Dit., Syll.3 675, 22, Or. 557, 16; PTebt. 27, 6; 51 [II BC]; POxy. 494, 9; 705, 32; Ps 32:4; Pr 12:22; Jos., Ant. 2, 61; Test. Ash, 7:7) w. κρίσις and ἔλεος Mt 23:23. (Opp. ἀπιστία as Hes., Op. 370) τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ καταργεῖν nullify the faithfulness of God (cf. Ps 32:4; Hos 2:22) Ro 3:3. πᾶσαν π. ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἀγαθήν show all good faith (fulness) Tit 2:10 (cf. BGU 314, 19 μετὰ πίστεως ἀγαθῆς). W. other virtues Gal 5:22

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 662.

eternal salvation in the kingdom of God. 1C the religious beliefs of Christians. 1D belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same. 2 fidelity, faithfulness. 2A the character of one who can be relied on.

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

A. Greek Usage.
I. Classical.
1. pistós, which is attested first, means a. “trusting” (also with the nuance of “obedient”) and b. “trustworthy,” i.e., faithful, reliable.


Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, and Geoffrey William Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans, 1985), 849.

Pistis, then, implies complete loyalty (1 Tim 1:5, pisteōs anypokritou; P.Abinn. 59, 17: “I, Plas, will restore to you completely, in all loyalty”; P.Mert. 90, 12: pisteōs kai epieikias charin). Heb 10:22 links fullness of faith and a true heart (alēthinos), in other words, sincerity and fidelity, just as the papyri link pistis and alētheia; P.Oxy. 70, 4: “every valid written contract has pistis and alētheia” (pasa kyria engraphos synallagē pistin kai alētheian echei); P.Flor. 32 b 14: “I swear … that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (exomnymi … ex alētheias kai pisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); P.Stras. 152, 14: “that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (ex alētheias kai peisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); BGU 1151, 17. Cf. 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Tim 2:7; Titus 1:1. The pistos anēr is a man worthy of confidence (1 Tim 1:12), loyal citizen, faithful friend, someone who is trusted: “if you find someone who is completely trustworthy among those who are with you” (ean tina heurēs kata parontas echonta peistēn pollēn, P.Fay. 122, 22); “being well-disposed and showing complete fidelity toward me” (eunoousē moi kai pasan pistin moi endeiknymenē, P.Oxy. 494, 9); “thanks to his kindness, his faithfulness, and his family ties” (eunoia kai pisti kai tē tou genous oikeotēti, P.Tebt. 326, 10); BGU 326, col. I, 15; P.Lips. 28, 31: “to watch over … with noble fidelity” (

Ceslas Spicq and James D. Ernest, Theological Lexicon of the New Testament (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1994), 114–115.
So that definition is what I have been saying all the time.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So that definition is what I have been saying all the time.
What part of faithfulness did you miss ?

Among other meanings

1. that which causes trust and faith—a. faithfulness, reliability (X., An. 1, 6, 3; 3, 3, 4; Aristot., Eth. Eud, 7, 2 p. 1237b, 12; Polyb. 7, 12, 9; 38, 1, 8 al.; Herodian 2, 14, 4 al.; Dit., Syll.3 675, 22, Or. 557, 16; PTebt. 27, 6; 51 [II BC]; POxy. 494, 9; 705, 32; Ps 32:4; Pr 12:22; Jos., Ant. 2, 61; Test. Ash, 7:7) w. κρίσις and ἔλεος Mt 23:23. (Opp. ἀπιστία as Hes., Op. 370) τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ καταργεῖν nullify the faithfulness of God (cf. Ps 32:4; Hos 2:22) Ro 3:3. πᾶσαν π. ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἀγαθήν show all good faith (fulness) Tit 2:10 (cf. BGU 314, 19 μετὰ πίστεως ἀγαθῆς). W. other virtues Gal 5:22

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 662.

eternal salvation in the kingdom of God. 1C the religious beliefs of Christians. 1D belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same. 2 fidelity, faithfulness. 2A the character of one who can be relied on.

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

A. Greek Usage.
I. Classical.
1. pistós, which is attested first, means a. “trusting” (also with the nuance of “obedient”) and b. “trustworthy,” i.e., faithful, reliable.


Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, and Geoffrey William Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans, 1985), 849.

Pistis, then, implies complete loyalty (1 Tim 1:5, pisteōs anypokritou; P.Abinn. 59, 17: “I, Plas, will restore to you completely, in all loyalty”; P.Mert. 90, 12: pisteōs kai epieikias charin). Heb 10:22 links fullness of faith and a true heart (alēthinos), in other words, sincerity and fidelity, just as the papyri link pistis and alētheia; P.Oxy. 70, 4: “every valid written contract has pistis and alētheia” (pasa kyria engraphos synallagē pistin kai alētheian echei); P.Flor. 32 b 14: “I swear … that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (exomnymi … ex alētheias kai pisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); P.Stras. 152, 14: “that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (ex alētheias kai peisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); BGU 1151, 17. Cf. 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Tim 2:7; Titus 1:1. The pistos anēr is a man worthy of confidence (1 Tim 1:12), loyal citizen, faithful friend, someone who is trusted: “if you find someone who is completely trustworthy among those who are with you” (ean tina heurēs kata parontas echonta peistēn pollēn, P.Fay. 122, 22); “being well-disposed and showing complete fidelity toward me” (eunoousē moi kai pasan pistin moi endeiknymenē, P.Oxy. 494, 9); “thanks to his kindness, his faithfulness, and his family ties” (eunoia kai pisti kai tē tou genous oikeotēti, P.Tebt. 326, 10); BGU 326, col. I, 15; P.Lips. 28, 31: “to watch over … with noble fidelity” (

Ceslas Spicq and James D. Ernest, Theological Lexicon of the New Testament (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1994), 114–115.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What part of faithfulness did you miss ?

Among other meanings

1. that which causes trust and faith—a. faithfulness, reliability (X., An. 1, 6, 3; 3, 3, 4; Aristot., Eth. Eud, 7, 2 p. 1237b, 12; Polyb. 7, 12, 9; 38, 1, 8 al.; Herodian 2, 14, 4 al.; Dit., Syll.3 675, 22, Or. 557, 16; PTebt. 27, 6; 51 [II BC]; POxy. 494, 9; 705, 32; Ps 32:4; Pr 12:22; Jos., Ant. 2, 61; Test. Ash, 7:7) w. κρίσις and ἔλεος Mt 23:23. (Opp. ἀπιστία as Hes., Op. 370) τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ καταργεῖν nullify the faithfulness of God (cf. Ps 32:4; Hos 2:22) Ro 3:3. πᾶσαν π. ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἀγαθήν show all good faith (fulness) Tit 2:10 (cf. BGU 314, 19 μετὰ πίστεως ἀγαθῆς). W. other virtues Gal 5:22

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 662.

eternal salvation in the kingdom of God. 1C the religious beliefs of Christians. 1D belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same. 2 fidelity, faithfulness. 2A the character of one who can be relied on.

James Strong, Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon (Woodside Bible Fellowship, 1995).

A. Greek Usage.
I. Classical.
1. pistós, which is attested first, means a. “trusting” (also with the nuance of “obedient”) and b. “trustworthy,” i.e., faithful, reliable.


Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, and Geoffrey William Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Grand Rapids, MI: W.B. Eerdmans, 1985), 849.

Pistis, then, implies complete loyalty (1 Tim 1:5, pisteōs anypokritou; P.Abinn. 59, 17: “I, Plas, will restore to you completely, in all loyalty”; P.Mert. 90, 12: pisteōs kai epieikias charin). Heb 10:22 links fullness of faith and a true heart (alēthinos), in other words, sincerity and fidelity, just as the papyri link pistis and alētheia; P.Oxy. 70, 4: “every valid written contract has pistis and alētheia” (pasa kyria engraphos synallagē pistin kai alētheian echei); P.Flor. 32 b 14: “I swear … that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (exomnymi … ex alētheias kai pisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); P.Stras. 152, 14: “that I have made the copy truly and faithfully” (ex alētheias kai peisteōs tēn apographēn pepoiēsthai); BGU 1151, 17. Cf. 1 Thess 2:13; 1 Tim 2:7; Titus 1:1. The pistos anēr is a man worthy of confidence (1 Tim 1:12), loyal citizen, faithful friend, someone who is trusted: “if you find someone who is completely trustworthy among those who are with you” (ean tina heurēs kata parontas echonta peistēn pollēn, P.Fay. 122, 22); “being well-disposed and showing complete fidelity toward me” (eunoousē moi kai pasan pistin moi endeiknymenē, P.Oxy. 494, 9); “thanks to his kindness, his faithfulness, and his family ties” (eunoia kai pisti kai tē tou genous oikeotēti, P.Tebt. 326, 10); BGU 326, col. I, 15; P.Lips. 28, 31: “to watch over … with noble fidelity” (

Ceslas Spicq and James D. Ernest, Theological Lexicon of the New Testament (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1994), 114–115.
You still don't get it. Faithfulness is the prolongation of Faith. Faithfulness is when one lives the tenor of their lives by God given Faith.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You still don't get it. Faithfulness is the prolongation of Faith. Faithfulness is when one lives the tenor of their lives by God given Faith.
No you don't get it

Gal 5:22 is not speaking of initial faith through which one receives the Holy Spirit without whom there is no fruit

I gave you the verses and they make your claim that initial faith is a fruit of the spirit impossible
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
No you don't get it

Gal 5:22 is not speaking of initial faith through which one receives the Holy Spirit without whom there is no fruit

I gave you the verses and they make your claim that initial faith is a fruit of the spirit impossible
Faith and faithfulness are the same
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Faith and faithfulness are the same
You are ignoring the facts

Gal 5:22 is not speaking of initial faith through which one receives the Holy Spirit without whom there is no fruit

I gave you the verses and they make your claim that initial faith is a fruit of the spirit impossible

I also gave you the lexical references defining the various ways Pistis may be understood
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You are ignoring the facts

Gal 5:22 is not speaking of initial faith through which one receives the Holy Spirit without whom there is no fruit

I gave you the verses and they make your claim that initial faith is a fruit of the spirit impossible

I also gave you the lexical references defining the various ways Pistis may be understood
You wasted our time since faith is a fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22 and faithfulness is merely a prolongation of Faith
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You wasted our time since faith is a fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22 and faithfulness is merely a prolongation of Faith
You are still ignoring the evidence no one receives the Spirit thus the fruit of the Spirit without faith

John 7:38–39 —KJV
“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

Gal. 3:2 —KJV
“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

Gal. 3:5 —KJV
“He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

which is probably why you never address these verses and continue posting your misinterpretation of Gal 5:22
 
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