Regeneration

[Bob Carabbio]

tom



Yes thats correct, faith doesnt bring life/regeneration. And Faith comes with Life, life from the Spirit

More Calvinist FOOLISHNESS. Eph 2:8,9

 

[TomFL]

Regeneration brings faith, faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22

Sorry you are confusing that which is for believers

Unbelievers do not have the fruit of the spirit

do you never correct your doctrinal misunderstandings

Gal. 5:22–25 —KJV
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”

 

[Reformedguy]

Regeneration is new life

Even the article cited shows that

Did you note the

new spiritual life

so regeneration brings life

John 20:31 —ESV
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.”

and that life is preceded by faith

Your proof text mentions nothing if regeneration. I was wondering why you would pull it out of context like that?

 

[brightfame52]

More Calvinist FOOLISHNESS. Eph 2:8,9

What are you talking about ?

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry you are confusing that which is for believers

Unbelievers do not have the fruit of the spirit

do you never correct your doctrinal misunderstandings

Gal. 5:22–25 —KJV
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, you must have it to become a believer !

 

[TomFL]

Your proof text mentions nothing if regeneration. I was wondering why you would pull it out of context like that?

Did you not read the op

The op claimed regeneration is new life

John 20:31 speaks of new life

It is predicated on faith

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

it is not out of context

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, you must have it to become a believer !

Sorry no

Unbelievers do not have the fruit of the spirit and they do not have the spirit

Sorry you are confusing that which is for believers

Unbelievers do not have the fruit of the spirit

..........................................................................

do you never correct your doctrinal misunderstandings

Gal. 5:22–25 —KJV
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What are you talking about ?

"Regeneration" is the Calvinist "Work-Around" for their "Total Depravity" theology.

In Fact, When God DRAWS a person to Christ (without which NOBODY Comes), The Conviction of SIN and of Judgement is the beginning of FAITH (Rom 10;17 - God's Word to YOU), and the person's OPTION at that point is to Surrender and REPENT in FAITH, or "Cut and run away" back into death. When one repents and calls upon God, then the Born again experience takes place, the person is infilled immediately with the Holy Spirit, and everything changes.

 

[Theo1689]

"Regeneration" is the Calvinist "Work-Around" for their "Total Depravity" theology.

So you're admitting that the Bible is a "Calvinist" book (Tit. 3:5)?

In Fact, When God DRAWS a person to Christ (without which NOBODY Comes), The Conviction of SIN and of Judgement is the beginning of FAITH (Rom 10;17 - God's Word to YOU), and the person's OPTION at that point is to Surrender and REPENT in FAITH, or "Cut and run away" back into death. When one repents and calls upon God, then the Born again experience takes place, the person is infilled immediately with the Holy Spirit, and everything changes.

Where does the Bible teach that a person has the "option"?

When Peter "drew" his sword, did the sword have any "option"?
When the woman "drew" water, did the water have any "option"?
When Peter "drew" the net of fish, did the fish have any "option"?

"Draw" doesn't mean "invite".

 

[TomFL]

So you're admitting that the Bible is a "Calvinist" book (Tit. 3:5)?



Where does the Bible teach that a person has the "option"?

When Peter "drew" his sword, did the sword have any "option"?
When the woman "drew" water, did the water have any "option"?
When Peter "drew" the net of fish, did the fish have any "option"?

"Draw" doesn't mean "invite".

The same Greek word for “drawn” is used in the LXX in Neh 9:30… (esdras 19:30) and that group of Israelites, though drawn by God to the opportunity to obey Him, did not do it.

Nehemiah 9:30 (YLT)

30 `And Thou drawest over them many years, and testifiest against them by Thy Spirit, by the hand of Thy prophets, and they have not given ear, and Thou dost give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,

The Hebrew word for “drawn” used in Neh 9:30 is also used in Hos 11:4-5, which again is showing that Israel was “drawn” by God with love to Himself, but they refused Him. Brian Wagner

Jeremiah 31:3–4 KJV

3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying,
Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love:
Therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel:Thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets,
And shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry

The LXX uses helko

Helko is also used at 4Macc 14:13; 15:11(8) influence

 

[Cynthia]

Who agrees and who disagrees why and why not ?

This comes from Louis Berkhof's
Manual of Christian Doctrine

1. The Meaning of the Term "Regeneration."
The word "regeneration" is not always used in the same sense. Calvin employed it in a very comprehensive sense, to denote the whole process of man's renewal, including even conversion and sanctification. In our confessional standards it serves to designate the beginning of man's renewal in the new birth plus conversion. At the present time it is used in a far more restricted sense, to denote the divine act by which the sinner is endowed with new spiritual life, and by which the principle of that new life is first called into action. Sometimes it is employed in an even more limited sense, as a designation of the implanting of the new life in the soul, apart from the first manifestations of this life. In this sense of the word regeneration may be defined as that act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy.

2. The Essential Nature of Regeneration.
The following particulars serve to indicate the essential nature of regeneration:

a. It is a Fundamental Change.
Regeneration consists in the implanting of the principle of the new spiritual life in man, in a radical change of the governing disposition of the soul. In principle it affects the whole man: the intellect, I Cor. 2:14, 15; II Cor. 4:6; Eph. 1:18; Col. 3:10—the will, Phil. 2:13; II Thess. 3:5; Heb. 13:21;—and the emotions, Ps. 42:1, 2 Matt. 5:4; I Pet. 1:8.

b. It is an Instantaneous Change.
The assertion that regeneration is an instantaneous change implies two things: (1) that it is not a work that is gradually prepared in the soul; there is no intermediate stage between life and death; and (2) that it is not a gradual process like sanctification, but is completed in a moment of time.

c. It is a Change in the Sub-conscious Life.
Regeneration is a secret and inscrutable work of God that is never directly perceived by man, but can be perceived only in its effects. Naturally, man may be directly conscious of a change in cases where regeneration and conversion coincide.

3. The Relative Order of Calling and Regeneration.
The order in which calling and regeneration stand to each other may best be indicated as follows: The external call in the preaching of the Word, except in the case of children, precedes or coincides with the operation of the Holy Spirit in the production of the new life. Then by a creative act God generates the new life, changing the inner disposition of the soul. This is regeneration in the restricted sense of the word. In it the spiritual ear is implanted which enables man to hear the call of God to the salvation of his soul. Having received the spiritual ear, the call of God is now brought home effectively to the heart, so that man hears and obeys. This effectual calling, finally, secures the first holy exercises of the new disposition that is born in the soul. The new life begins to manifest itself and issues in the new birth. This is regeneration in the broader sense and marks the point at which regeneration passes into conversion.

4. The Necessity of Regeneration.
Scripture does not leave us in doubt about the necessity of regeneration, but asserts this in the clearest terms, John 3:3, 5, 7; I Cor. 2:14; Gal. 6:15. Cf. also Jer. 13:23; Rom. 3:11; Eph. 2:3. This necessity also follows from the sinful condition of man. Holiness or conformity to the divine law is the indispensable condition of securing the divine favour, attaining peace of conscience, and enjoying fellowship with God, Heb. 12:14. Now the natural condition of man is exactly the opposite of that holiness which is so indispensable. Consequently, a radical internal change is necessary by which the whole dispensation of the soul is altered.

5. The Use of the Word of God as an Instrument in Regeneration.
The question is often raised, whether the Word, that is, the word of preaching, is instrumental in the implanting of the new life, in regeneration in the most restricted sense of the word. Since regeneration is a creative act of God, and the word of the gospel can only work in a moral and persuasive way, it would seem that this cannot very well be instrumental in implanting the new life in man. Such an instrument has no spiritual effect on those who are still dead in sin. To assert its use would seem to imply a denial of the spiritual death of man, though this is not intended by those who make the assertion. Moreover, regeneration takes place in the sphere of the sub-conscious life, while the truth addresses itself to the consciousness of man. And, finally, the Bible clearly intimates that man is enabled to understand the truth only by a special operation of the Holy Spirit, Acts 16:14; I Cor. 2:12-15; Eph. 1:17-20. It is often said that Jas. 1:18 and I Pet. 1:23 prove that the Word is used as an instrument in regeneration. But it is certain that James is speaking of regeneration in a broader sense, as including the new birth or the first manifestations of the new life, and in all probability this is also the case with Peter. And in that more inclusive sense regeneration is undoubtedly wrought through the instrumentality of the Word.

6. Regeneration Exclusively a Work of God.
God is the author of regeneration. It is represented in Scripture as the work of the Holy Spirit directly and exclusively, Ezek. 11:19; John 1:13; Acts 16:14; Rom. 9:16; Phil. 2:13. This means that in regeneration God only works, and there is no cooperation of the sinner in this work whatever. The Arminians do not agree with this view. They speak of a cooperation of God and man in the work of regeneration. In their estimation the spiritual renewal of man is really the fruit of man's choice to cooperate with the divine influences exerted by means of the truth. Strictly speaking, they regard the work of man as prior to that of God. Man can resist, but he can also yield to the influences of the Holy Spirit.

hope this helps !!!

Hello Civic

I finished reading all the references and reread the paper by Berkhof. It is full of great points of scripture.

I would like to add a few things that I jotted down during my study.

There was only one phrase that I did not find support for, and that was in paragraph 3 "except in the case of children".

Several of the passages referred to "eyes of the heart being enlightened" and "receiving the light". This goes along with the concept Berkhof mentioned of the "spiritual ear that enables man to hear the call of God".

I want to stress that the term "re-generation" is in fact a new creative act, as he said. But what may not have been clear to some perhaps is that it is a regeneration (of the element in man) the dead spirit that died in Eden at the fall. In other words, a type of resurrection which is qualified to be our "first resurrection" spoken of in Rev 20. This regeneration of our dead spirit, coming into our soul like a sword in its sheath, gives us spiritual eternal life, with which we are sealed, confirming the election of God, "he chose us" (James 1:18) This regeneration is the new creation, the new man, the new life, born again, born of God, born from above, sealed with the spirit, etc.

And finally, although I may not qualify for either Calvinist or Arminian, I have an understanding that it is no question that regeneration is exclusively a work of the Holy Spirit. But we must at a point, prior to being saved, stop resisting the Holy Spirit, yield and obey the call, answer the call, and then He regenerates us. This yielding cannot really be called cooperating in this work as apparently the Arminian believes. The obedience we display is even prompted by the Spirit (Acts 16:14). But answer we must, as His regeneration will not come until then, as Jesus may have been referring to in his parables of the invitation to the wedding supper. Many were invited (called) but did not obey the calling. So others were called in to the wedding supper, wherein some were then chosen to share in the Fathers' joy.

Blessings

 

[Cynthia]

Also, a 'type and shadow' of calling, election, and work may be seen in the persons of Esau and Jacob.
Malachi 1:1-5, Romans 9:6-16, Hebrews 12:14-17

 

[TomFL]

Also, a 'type and shadow' of calling, election, and work may be seen in the persons of Esau and Jacob.
Malachi 1:1-5, Romans 9:6-16, Hebrews 12:14-17

You are aware that was a election to service and not salvation ?

And Malachi which you quote shows it is the Edomites and the the Israelites the descendant of Esau and and Jacob who are being referred to

 

[Cynthia]

You are aware that was a election to service and not salvation ?

And Malachi which you quote shows it is the Edomites and the the Israelites the descendant of Esau and and Jacob who are being referred to

When I wrote "...calling, election, and work..." I thought I covered all those bases.

I did not quote. I made a reference to a passage. Malachi refers to both the persons and their descendants.

Magnifying glass? Fine tooth comb?

 

[ReverendRV]

We're washed by Regeneration and then our spirit is Renewed, that's the Biblical Order for the New Birth. Temporarily in the twinkling of an eye, and Logically according to the Bible. Titus 3:5 settles this. We are Saved by the Washing and Renewing of God...

Grace prevenes even the Free Will...

 

[Cynthia]

We're washed by Regeneration and then our spirit is Renewed, that's the Biblical Order for the New Birth. Temporarily in the twinkling of an eye, and Logically according to the Bible. Titus 3:5 settles this. We are Saved by the Washing and Renewing of God...

Grace prevenes even the Free Will...

Hello ReverendRV, and thank you!

regeneration, Greek 3824 palin-genesia,

renewing, Greek 342, ana-kain-osis,

Titus 3:5 reads as these two actions taking place at the same time, not one after the other. They may in fact be the same thing.
...not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of (by) the Holy Spirit,...

 

[ReverendRV]

Hello ReverendRV, and thank you!

regeneration, Greek 3824 palin-genesia,

renewing, Greek 342, ana-kain-osis,

Titus 3:5 reads as these two actions taking place at the same time, not one after the other. They may in fact be the same thing.
...not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of (by) the Holy Spirit,...

I agree with you. I say that Titus establishes the Logical Order of which came first, the Renewing or the Regeneration. Since Titus says Regeneration and Renewal are the twofold aspects of the one New Birth, Logically speaking, one is the precedent and one is the predicate. Staying a middle-man and not making that decision doesn't fix things because Arminians, Provisionalists and Calvinists believe we're Washed and Renewed at the same time; Temporarily speaking...

Basically, the Arminian/Calvinist debate boils down to the Logical Order; arguing over which comes first. When you pick a side on which comes first, that decision is THE deciding factor which categorizes you as an Arminian or a Calvinist...

Your mission, if you should accept it, is to show us that Titus meant us to only understand Regeneration and Renewal as happening at the same time; never intending for us to wonder which came first. If you do this, you WOULD solve the age old debate...

 

[ReverendRV]

Hello ReverendRV, and thank you!

regeneration, Greek 3824 palin-genesia,

renewing, Greek 342, ana-kain-osis,

Titus 3:5 reads as these two actions taking place at the same time, not one after the other. They may in fact be the same thing.
...not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of (by) the Holy Spirit,...

And welcome back; I'm bruisermiller...

 

[ReverendRV]

I agree with you. I say that Titus establishes the Logical Order of which came first, the Renewing or the Regeneration...

accidental post...

 

[Cynthia]

And welcome back; I'm bruisermiller...

Oh my goodness, hello brother!

RVer? (recreational vehicle?)

 

[ReverendRV]

Oh my goodness, hello brother!

RVer? (recreational vehicle?)

I intend to be a Traveling Evangelist