Regeneration

Theo1689

Well-known member
Again you are being absurd

Thank you for the insult.
It seems that you are unable to defend. your false teachings, and you are only able to insult those who refuse to accept your false teachings.

The concept that God choses men/nations to serve him is clearly a biblical concept

Can you deny that ?

Since it's NOT "a biblical concept" (and you "clearly" don't understand the meaning of the word, "clearly"), then CERTAINLY I deny it.

It's NOT Biblical.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Thank you for the insult.
It seems that you are unable to defend. your false teachings, and you are only able to insult those who refuse to accept your false teachings.
Actually it looks like you go to absurd ends to offer a denial

can you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?

Can you ?

That is an election to service

Now go ahead and deny that idea
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Actually it looks like you go to absurd ends to offer a denial

can you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?

Can you ?

That is an election to service

Now go ahead and deny that idea
<sigh>

Asked and answered.

Unlike you, I don't have my entire life to waste answering the same pointless questions a hundred million times. Get a hobby.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
So you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?

<sigh>
No, I did NOT "deny" any such thing.

I simply denied that God's use of "elect" (use of the SPECIFIC term) is limited to "salvation", and is NOT used in direct reference to "service".
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Actually it looks like you go to absurd ends to offer a denial

can you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?

Can you ?

That is an election to service

Now go ahead and deny that idea

<sigh>

Asked and answered.

Unlike you, I don't have my entire life to waste answering the same pointless questions a hundred million times. Get a hobby.

Do you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?

don't run from the question

You chose to scoff at the idea

so will you answer

Do you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
<sigh>
No, I did NOT "deny" any such thing.

I simply denied that God's use of "elect" (use of the SPECIFIC term) is limited to "salvation", and is NOT used in direct reference to "service".
That is because you can't and i know it and you know it

Elect just means to chose

Christ is elect - chosen

Israel is elect

Is. 45:4 —KJV
“For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.”

was all Israel elected to salvation

You are in error

and have been corrected
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Do you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?

I deny that such is the PURPOSE of God choosing them.

I believe the Bible teaches that God chooses people for SALVATION, and then it is those people who are to serve Him. He does not "choose" people to serve him outside of salvation.

don't run from the question

<sigh>
You're using stupid word games to try to railroad me into agreeing with you, when I don't.
Sorry, it's not going to work.

so will you answer

I have no "obligation" to answer ANYTHING you ask.
So please get over yourself.

Unfortunately, you try to use my refusing to answer you as an excuse to MISREPRESENT me. And that is something NO true Christian would do. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Do you deny God choses men or nations to serve him ?

Asked and answered.
Sorry, the answer is NOT going to change, just because you don't like the TRUTH.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Asked and answered.
Sorry, the answer is NOT going to change, just because you don't like the TRUTH.
Is. 45:4 —KJV
“For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.”

All Israel was not elected to salvation

so you have been corrected

Accept your correction and deal with it
 

TomFL

Well-known member
No, YOU are "in error".



Sorry, you have no authority to "correct" me.
The Bible says you're wrong.
So I will NEVER accept your false teachings, and reject the Bible.
The bible is trher only authority needed to correct you and it did

Jesus is the elect servant

Israel was an elect servant

Angels are Elect

None of that is to salvation

Time to fess up and Admit your error
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I'm sorry, I don't know what a "trher" is.


And the Bible did not "correct" me, YOU did.
And you are NOT "the Bible".
So kindly get over yourself.



YOU are the one who needs to admit YOUR error.


You were refuted

Jesus was elect he was not getting saved

Israel was elect they were not all saved but they were servants

Angels are elect no salvation for them they are however servants as well
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You were refuted

Jesus was elect he was not getting saved

Israel was elect they were not all saved but they were servants

Angels are elect no salvation for them they are however servants as well


You're still wrong.
Please stop harassing me.
Have a nice day.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You're still wrong.
Please stop harassing me.
Have a nice day.
There it goes

Every time you are proven wrong its stop harassing's me

well

Jesus was elect he was not getting saved

Israel was elect they were not all saved but they were servants

Angels are elect no salvation for them they are however servants as well

you were wrong
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Probably if the sequence was THAT monumental, there would be several passages making that clear.

I had no clue there was an age-old debate on that singular point. I have no desire to wade into that.
Yeah, it's monumental; and it's simply an argument over whether the two are Concurrent or Sequential...

Ain't that something?

But if you found out the Washing and the Renewing were Sequential, which Gang would you choose?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
tom
The op claimed regeneration is new life

It is new life that comes from Christ and His resurrection causes them He died and rose for to be regenerated. 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That word begotten us anagennaō:

metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God


So New Life/Born Again comes through the Resurrection of Christ. Its His Work that Gives Regeneration.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
tom


It is new life that comes from Christ and His resurrection causes them He died and rose for to be regenerated. 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That word begotten us anagennaō:

metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God


So New Life/Born Again comes through the Resurrection of Christ. Its His Work that Gives Regeneration.
Not without faith

1 Pet. 1:18–23 —KJV
“Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”
 
Who agrees and who disagrees why and why not ?

This comes from Louis Berkhof's
Manual of Christian Doctrine

1. The Meaning of the Term "Regeneration."
The word "regeneration" is not always used in the same sense. Calvin employed it in a very comprehensive sense, to denote the whole process of man's renewal, including even conversion and sanctification. In our confessional standards it serves to designate the beginning of man's renewal in the new birth plus conversion. At the present time it is used in a far more restricted sense, to denote the divine act by which the sinner is endowed with new spiritual life, and by which the principle of that new life is first called into action. Sometimes it is employed in an even more limited sense, as a designation of the implanting of the new life in the soul, apart from the first manifestations of this life. In this sense of the word regeneration may be defined as that act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy.

2. The Essential Nature of Regeneration.
The following particulars serve to indicate the essential nature of regeneration:

a. It is a Fundamental Change.
Regeneration consists in the implanting of the principle of the new spiritual life in man, in a radical change of the governing disposition of the soul. In principle it affects the whole man: the intellect, I Cor. 2:14, 15; II Cor. 4:6; Eph. 1:18; Col. 3:10—the will, Phil. 2:13; II Thess. 3:5; Heb. 13:21;—and the emotions, Ps. 42:1, 2 Matt. 5:4; I Pet. 1:8.

b. It is an Instantaneous Change.
The assertion that regeneration is an instantaneous change implies two things: (1) that it is not a work that is gradually prepared in the soul; there is no intermediate stage between life and death; and (2) that it is not a gradual process like sanctification, but is completed in a moment of time.

c. It is a Change in the Sub-conscious Life.
Regeneration is a secret and inscrutable work of God that is never directly perceived by man, but can be perceived only in its effects. Naturally, man may be directly conscious of a change in cases where regeneration and conversion coincide.

3. The Relative Order of Calling and Regeneration.
The order in which calling and regeneration stand to each other may best be indicated as follows: The external call in the preaching of the Word, except in the case of children, precedes or coincides with the operation of the Holy Spirit in the production of the new life. Then by a creative act God generates the new life, changing the inner disposition of the soul. This is regeneration in the restricted sense of the word. In it the spiritual ear is implanted which enables man to hear the call of God to the salvation of his soul. Having received the spiritual ear, the call of God is now brought home effectively to the heart, so that man hears and obeys. This effectual calling, finally, secures the first holy exercises of the new disposition that is born in the soul. The new life begins to manifest itself and issues in the new birth. This is regeneration in the broader sense and marks the point at which regeneration passes into conversion.

4. The Necessity of Regeneration.
Scripture does not leave us in doubt about the necessity of regeneration, but asserts this in the clearest terms, John 3:3, 5, 7; I Cor. 2:14; Gal. 6:15. Cf. also Jer. 13:23; Rom. 3:11; Eph. 2:3. This necessity also follows from the sinful condition of man. Holiness or conformity to the divine law is the indispensable condition of securing the divine favour, attaining peace of conscience, and enjoying fellowship with God, Heb. 12:14. Now the natural condition of man is exactly the opposite of that holiness which is so indispensable. Consequently, a radical internal change is necessary by which the whole dispensation of the soul is altered.

5. The Use of the Word of God as an Instrument in Regeneration.
The question is often raised, whether the Word, that is, the word of preaching, is instrumental in the implanting of the new life, in regeneration in the most restricted sense of the word. Since regeneration is a creative act of God, and the word of the gospel can only work in a moral and persuasive way, it would seem that this cannot very well be instrumental in implanting the new life in man. Such an instrument has no spiritual effect on those who are still dead in sin. To assert its use would seem to imply a denial of the spiritual death of man, though this is not intended by those who make the assertion. Moreover, regeneration takes place in the sphere of the sub-conscious life, while the truth addresses itself to the consciousness of man. And, finally, the Bible clearly intimates that man is enabled to understand the truth only by a special operation of the Holy Spirit, Acts 16:14; I Cor. 2:12-15; Eph. 1:17-20. It is often said that Jas. 1:18 and I Pet. 1:23 prove that the Word is used as an instrument in regeneration. But it is certain that James is speaking of regeneration in a broader sense, as including the new birth or the first manifestations of the new life, and in all probability this is also the case with Peter. And in that more inclusive sense regeneration is undoubtedly wrought through the instrumentality of the Word.

6. Regeneration Exclusively a Work of God.
God is the author of regeneration. It is represented in Scripture as the work of the Holy Spirit directly and exclusively, Ezek. 11:19; John 1:13; Acts 16:14; Rom. 9:16; Phil. 2:13. This means that in regeneration God only works, and there is no cooperation of the sinner in this work whatever. The Arminians do not agree with this view. They speak of a cooperation of God and man in the work of regeneration. In their estimation the spiritual renewal of man is really the fruit of man's choice to cooperate with the divine influences exerted by means of the truth. Strictly speaking, they regard the work of man as prior to that of God. Man can resist, but he can also yield to the influences of the Holy Spirit.

hope this helps !!!
God regeneration man is progressive just like planting a spiritual seed is progressive. God must nourish the seed and till the ground and when the seed becomes a plant it still must be maintained. Sanctification and purification or cleansing is also part of regeneration. The new spiritual man has a part to play in what God is doing. Man works out what God has worked in man and God graces man with God's faith not man's faith and thus man can harmonize with God in working out (not for) his salvation. Salvation requires regeneration because God is not saving the old man but rather the man quickened out of death.

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
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