Reincarnation

Faithoverbelief

Active member
So, your ...I..appears to be eternal??
In a way yes. As I have stated previously there is only one event "I" am that event now. In one sense no one really dies because we are the eternal one event. Instead of a potter/pottery model of the universe I have an organic/dramatic model of the universe. Too many people put hocus pocus and complicate reincarnation. It is however very simple when you "die" babies will be born after that and we are all of them (one event) BTW nice discussion thank you for sharing with me.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
In a way yes. As I have stated previously there is only one event "I" am that event now. In one sense no one really dies because we are the eternal one event. Instead of a potter/pottery model of the universe I have an organic/dramatic model of the universe. Too many people put hocus pocus and complicate reincarnation. It is however very simple when you "die" babies will be born after that and we are all of them (one event) BTW nice discussion thank you for sharing with me.
I agree when we die we live on. Our body returns to the dust so to speak...but our spirit/soul...our supernatural aspect lives on.
The eternal one event is still confusing. I would imagine being an event it had a cause.

You used hocus pocus again...which to me sounds like magic. I'm not sure what you mean by it and an explanation might help.
 

Faithoverbelief

Active member
I agree when we die we live on. Our body returns to the dust so to speak...but our spirit/soul...our supernatural aspect lives on.
The eternal one event is still confusing. I would imagine being an event it had a cause.

You used hocus pocus again...which to me sounds like magic. I'm not sure what you mean by it and an explanation might help.
Hocus pocus, spookery, woo, supernatural perhaps.
 

Faithoverbelief

Active member
I agree when we die we live on. Our body returns to the dust so to speak...but our spirit/soul...our supernatural aspect lives on.
The eternal one event is still confusing. I would imagine being an event it had a cause.
When you separate soul/spirit from body there are now at least 2. My faith is that there is only one, there are no separate things. The idea of separate is an illusion IMO.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Hocus pocus, spookery, woo, supernatural perhaps.
I don't see how people would assign spookery, woo with it....but I can easily see people assigning the supernatural with it. I still can't get past the question...who decides? Why is the decision made? What causes karma to act?

So far all I really seem to get is...it just happens. The I dies...then gets re-born...then dies...then gets re-born. I don't see who decides who the I is re-born as or what decision process is used to determine who the I becomes.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
When you separate soul/spirit from body there are now at least 2. My faith is that there is only one, there are no separate things. The idea of separate is an illusion IMO.
I used soul/spirit as basically the same thing. Some may say you are a soul wich is the make up of the body and spirit combined. Christianity has several thoughts on this. For the sake of the argument we can say we have a physical aspect and a supernatural aspect.
 

rossum

Active member
Gravity works exactly the same on good people as well as not so good people.
The end result is the same...not so with the theory of karma.
Gravity works the same on good people as on bad people. Karma is the same. In both cases your own actions determine the result. It is your own actions that make a difference, just as a parachute will alter the effect of gravity.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Gravity works the same on good people as on bad people. Karma is the same. In both cases your own actions determine the result. It is your own actions that make a difference, just as a parachute will alter the effect of gravity.
Your actions determine the results....It sounds like there is a law determined by "someone" whatever that entity might be which judges your actions and prescribes a result.
It sounds like there needs to be something that tracks and records your entire life..all you do, good and bad...perhaps weighs it out and determins what you need for your life in the reincarnation.
 

rossum

Active member
.It sounds like there is a law determined by "someone" whatever that entity might be which judges your actions and prescribes a result.
Yes, it is just like Gravity. The God of Gravity judges that jumping off a tall building without a parachute is a deed worthy of punishment. However wearing a godly parachute while jumping is not sinful and so is not punished. However if Lucifer has interfered with the parachute, then it is no longer a godly parachute and will not save you from the consequences of your sin against gravity.

Buddhism is not an Abrahamic religion. It is an error to assume that ideas from the Abrahamic religions will apply to Buddhism. In the Abrahamic religions, God is running everything from behind the scenes. No so in Buddhism; what you see is what you get. There is no man behind the curtain.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Yes, it is just like Gravity. The God of Gravity judges that jumping off a tall building without a parachute is a deed worthy of punishment. However wearing a godly parachute while jumping is not sinful and so is not punished. However if Lucifer has interfered with the parachute, then it is no longer a godly parachute and will not save you from the consequences of your sin against gravity.

Buddhism is not an Abrahamic religion. It is an error to assume that ideas from the Abrahamic religions will apply to Buddhism. In the Abrahamic religions, God is running everything from behind the scenes. No so in Buddhism; what you see is what you get. There is no man behind the curtain.

So you end up reincarnating as a cow just because? No reason? Or you reincarnate as a mass murder just because what you see is what you get.
 

rossum

Active member
So you end up reincarnating as a cow just because? No reason?
No, you are wrong. You end up reincarnating as a cow because your actions in this and previous lives, taken together, have that result. actions have consequences. Your actions have consequences during this current life and during your lives to come.

You are the one driving the process by your actions.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
No, you are wrong. You end up reincarnating as a cow because your actions in this and previous lives, taken together, have that result. actions have consequences. Your actions have consequences during this current life and during your lives to come.

You are the one driving the process by your actions.
OK...then "something" looks at your actions and then determins what you will be in the next life. Your actions are judged then consequences determined.

I'm just trying to understand what the "something" judge is.
 

rossum

Active member
I'm just trying to understand what the "something" judge is.
Like gravity. If you throw a rock straight up in the air, it will come down and hit you on the head. That was not gravity 'punishing' or 'judging' you, it was the result of your own actions coming back at you. The same with karma. There is no 'punishment'or 'judging', there are just your actions and their consequences.

Buddhism has neither the concept of 'sin' nor 'forgiveness of sin'. Gravity cannot 'forgive' you and stop that rock hitting you on the head when it comes down. Similarly, karma cannot 'forgive'. Actions have consequences, and once you have acted you cannot avoid those consequences. Buddhists are advised to think carefully before acting.

The image of the Abrahamic God is of a powerful King who makes laws and enforces them. That is not the Buddhist view of the world. In Buddhism, the Buddha explains the laws of the world -- how to act so as to get pleasant outcomes and how to act to avoid unpleasant outcomes. The whole approach is very different. There is no 'judge' there are just impersonal rules, and advice on how to navigate those rules: "Avoid jumping off tall buildings without a parachute."
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Like gravity. If you throw a rock straight up in the air, it will come down and hit you on the head. That was not gravity 'punishing' or 'judging' you, it was the result of your own actions coming back at you. The same with karma. There is no 'punishment'or 'judging', there are just your actions and their consequences.

Buddhism has neither the concept of 'sin' nor 'forgiveness of sin'. Gravity cannot 'forgive' you and stop that rock hitting you on the head when it comes down. Similarly, karma cannot 'forgive'. Actions have consequences, and once you have acted you cannot avoid those consequences. Buddhists are advised to think carefully before acting.

The image of the Abrahamic God is of a powerful King who makes laws and enforces them. That is not the Buddhist view of the world. In Buddhism, the Buddha explains the laws of the world -- how to act so as to get pleasant outcomes and how to act to avoid unpleasant outcomes. The whole approach is very different. There is no 'judge' there are just impersonal rules, and advice on how to navigate those rules: "Avoid jumping off tall buildings without a parachute."
There seems to be punishment...if you act unpleasantly in this life...you get your due in the next life. Your fulfillment of karma will cause unpleasantness in your next life...which will cause you to be even more unpleasant...so your next life is even worse than the previous.
 

rossum

Active member
There seems to be punishment...
If you see it that way, then you are punishing yourself. The rock falling on your head is punishment for throwing it up in the air. Being born is punishment for not attaining enlightenment in your previous life. From that perspective, karma also rewards as well as punishes. Karma will get you into the heavens for a lifetime or three.

Alternatively you can see it as the results of your previous actions, and learn from the experience. Do you like the prospect of dying? then work towards becoming enlightened and you will only die once more.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
If you see it that way, then you are punishing yourself. The rock falling on your head is punishment for throwing it up in the air. Being born is punishment for not attaining enlightenment in your previous life. From that perspective, karma also rewards as well as punishes. Karma will get you into the heavens for a lifetime or three.

Alternatively you can see it as the results of your previous actions, and learn from the experience. Do you like the prospect of dying? then work towards becoming enlightened and you will only die once more.
Why would one want to be enlightened?

What heavens?
 
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