Reincarnation

[SteveB]

No into no-thingness. The undifferentiated oneness with all.

How sad.

God's Kingdom is a Kingdom where the individual person is brought to their fullest measure of humanity and happiness.

Thankfully, God is into uniqueness, and one of a kind ness.

He made us in his own likeness and image. He has defined himself as one of a kind, and commands us to be likewise.

Only by his teachings and power is this possible.

 

[rossum]

God's Kingdom is a Kingdom where the individual person is brought to their fullest measure of humanity and happiness.

Aren't you forgetting about the other place? Are people brought to their fullest measure of humanity and happiness in Hell? Somehow I think not. How sad.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

How sad.

God's Kingdom is a Kingdom where the individual person is brought to their fullest measure of humanity and happiness.

Thankfully, God is into uniqueness, and one of a kind ness.

He made us in his own likeness and image. He has defined himself as one of a kind, and commands us to be likewise.

Only by his teachings and power is this possible.

Eternal life would be torture. You need the forgetery. (In opposition to memory) to make life interesting. You cannot know pleasure and happiness without the contrast of pain and sadness.

 

[Mr Laurier]

Oh, I'm sure that you believe you know what you're talking about.
That's not the question.

It's whether you ACTUALLY know what you're talking about.

Solipsism is the issue that you believe that you alone are correct in your beliefs and ideas.

And you are almost right.

And I do.

That is one definition.

 

[SteveB]

Aren't you forgetting about the other place?

Nope. I'm acutely aware of that "other" place.
Why do you think I spend so much time reasoning with you to turn to God, from your sin, and to place your trust in Jesus?

Are people brought to their fullest measure of humanity and happiness in Hell? Somehow I think not. How sad.

Why would they?
Why would God prepare a place designed explicitly with you in mind, for your needs, desires, etc..., and then prepare a place for the devil, who wanted nothing to do with God, without you in mind, and then demand you take one, and not the other?

If you don't want to know God, he's going to give you what you want--- an eternity separated from him.
He's not going to force you to choose paradise. That's a choice you have to make.
And once you choose hell, and the lake of fire.... well.... you're literally on your own.
As the old saying goes--- if you don't care, I guess it don't matter.
Except I can assure you.... it'll matter once you get there. Youll be spending your eternity living with constant regret, and it'll drive you mad. A madness from which there will be no recovery, or hope of escape. It'll twist, and eat you up, spit you out, and then do it again..... and again..... over and over, for untold numbers of endless eons. All while mocking, and laughing at your stupidity for not choosing Jesus.
I get this sounds cruel. But I'm trying to get you to recognize the sheer folly of your disbelief. God does not WANT you to choose hell. He WANTS you to choose Jesus.

Jesus came to earth, lived, and died then was raised by God, to ensure you don't HAVE to spend your eternity separated from God, barely existing in a place which was not designed for you.

Turn to God, from your sin. Place your trust in Jesus.
You'll be translated out of the kingdom of darkness, and into the kingdom of the Son of his dear love.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

Nope. I'm acutely aware of that "other" place.
Why do you think I spend so much time reasoning with you to turn to God, from your sin, and to place your trust in Jesus?


Why would they?
Why would God prepare a place designed explicitly with you in mind, for your needs, desires, etc..., and then prepare a place for the devil, who wanted nothing to do with God, without you in mind, and then demand you take one, and not the other?

If you don't want to know God, he's going to give you what you want--- an eternity separated from him.
He's not going to force you to choose paradise. That's a choice you have to make.
And once you choose hell, and the lake of fire.... well.... you're literally on your own.
As the old saying goes--- if you don't care, I guess it don't matter.
Except I can assure you.... it'll matter once you get there. Youll be spending your eternity living with constant regret, and it'll drive you mad. A madness from which there will be no recovery, or hope of escape. It'll twist, and eat you up, spit you out, and then do it again..... and again..... over and over, for untold numbers of endless eons. All while mocking, and laughing at your stupidity for not choosing Jesus.
I get this sounds cruel. But I'm trying to get you to recognize the sheer folly of your disbelief. God does not WANT you to choose hell. He WANTS you to choose Jesus.

Jesus came to earth, lived, and died then was raised by God, to ensure you don't HAVE to spend your eternity separated from God, barely existing in a place which was not designed for you.

Turn to God, from your sin. Place your trust in Jesus.
You'll be translated out of the kingdom of darkness, and into the kingdom of the Son of his dear love.

How awful that right belief outweighs right action. No wonder the world is in such a mess.

 

[SteveB]

Eternal life would be torture. You need the forgetery. (In opposition to memory) to make life interesting. You cannot know pleasure and happiness without the contrast of pain and sadness.

On human terms, I agree.
Give me an oubliette anyday!
Thankfully, God has prepared a kingdom for us, with us in mind, that'll take away all the madness, pain, and hearthache of this life.

9 But as it is written:​

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,​

Nor have entered into the heart of man​

The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”​

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.​

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18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.​

there's a day coming, when all of this life's miseries will be resolved, and wiped away.
God will open up a new world to us, never to be corrupted by the evils, and selfishnesses of the human race.
A paradise beyond description, where justice and righteousness rule. Peace is the fruit of righteousness.
So.... you choose.

Paradise or misery.

Jesus is offering paradise.

 

[SteveB]

How awful that right belief outweighs right action. No wonder the world is in such a mess.

Action is based on belief.
You live out what you believe in your daily life.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

Action is based on belief.
You live out what you believe in your daily life.

And when you believe you can do what you want and all is forgiven.....

 

[rossum]

there's a day coming, when all of this life's miseries will be resolved, and wiped away.

But not for everyone. Again, you are ignoring the other place.

Buddhism has hells, but they are all temporary. The downside is that the heavens are all temporary as well.

 

[SteveB]

And when you believe you can do what you want and all is forgiven.....

If we believe we've been forgiven, and are made right with God, we live a different life.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.​

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.​

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5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.​

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10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.​

So, action is based on belief.

 

[SteveB]

But not for everyone.

That's right.

Again, you are ignoring the other place.

your opinions, You're entitled to. Your opinions do not facts make.

Buddhism has hells, but they are all temporary. The downside is that the heavens are all temporary as well.

Ah, well then.
When your temporary heaven/hell is done, you'll stand before God, answer for your life, and then be cast into the eternal lake of fire.

It is quite ironic that your beliefs actually match the biblical narrative.
As for heaven being temporary
Revelation 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

Sounds temporary to me. Looks like there'll be a new one.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Looks like your hell is temporary too..... but then..... there's something far worse, which will not be temporary.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

So, action is based on belief.

Interesting. This then is how atheists have morals. So no need for any gods.

 

[Manfred]

His only heresy was in threatening the religious hierarchy. He was still a Jew.

He was charged and sentenced to death for Blasphemy, him being a man making himself equal to God.

You seem to be quite uninformed

 

[Manfred]

He was not directly threatening the religious hierarchy. Claiming, or being acclaimed as the Jewish Messiah was a capital crime. He was executed for sedition and insurrection by the Roman Praefectus within a Roman province.

The Roman prefect found no fault in him. The Jews insisted, so he finally washed his hands of the matter

 

[SteveB]

Interesting. This then is how atheists have morals. So no need for any gods.

We who follow Jesus have no gods either.
We believe only in YHVH, who is the Creator of everything that exists.
And as it's written, in him, we live, move and have our being.
So, point in fact, you actually do need him, as he holds your life in his hands, and can stop your breath and heartbeat at any moment.

The difference is that he actually seeks for your good. Your eternal good.

The Law, aka biblical morals, was given, not to keep us from enjoying life. but from destroying ourselves. I.e., operator's manual. Equipments specifications.

Furthermore, your morals are dependent entirely on you.
It's been noted throughout history that when such morals become inconvenient, they get changed. Eg, in the 1800's, some people's morals allowed them to justify slavery. While the morals of other people said slavery was wrong. Yet, so convinced of the former people of their "high moral standard" they went to war to "protect their right to own human beings as property."
The war resulted in the deaths of over 600,000 people here in the US. Many of whom gave their lives to free those people who were treated as property.

In world war 2, the "morals" of the German government "convinced" them, of their "high moral standard", they went to war to to "protect their right to slaughter human beings" who did not fit their views of what a human being should be.
that "high moral standard" resulted in the cruel, and heinous slaughter of approx. six million Jewish people, and the balance of the other approx. six million were people who were disabled, homosexual, gypsies, and Christians who fought to save those who were being slaughtered.

Subsequent wars, military, and cultural, have been, and are being fought over the constantly changing social morals, to fit the beliefs of those who seek the change. Muslims, specifically the more radical, "true believers" of the Quran, view Christians, and Jewish people are the problem, and that we should be removed from society.

So..... by all means, when I read your comment, I find myself thinking--- you apparently missed that part of history's lessons!


Thankfully, genuine biblical morality is consistent, and unchanging. Not dependent on the whims of those who agree, disagree, prefer otherwise, etc.....

Furthermore, they are not manmade. God's Law, is eternal, and will stand beyond the end of the cosmos. So, if you think the cosmos will last another 15 billion years, God's Law will be here long beyond that.

 

[rossum]

We believe only in YHVH, who is the Creator of everything that exists.

Elementary logical error there. You have lost those of us who expect logical consistency:

• YHWH exists.
• YHWH did not create Himself.
• Therefore YHWH did not create everything that exists.

QED.

Don't worry, you are not the first to make this mistake. The original error is in the stock phrase: "God created everything." Perhaps a little more thought before posting up a stock phrase in future?

Thankfully, genuine biblical morality is consistent, and unchanging.

Unfortunately us mere humans have no access to "genuine biblical morality". All we have access to is "current human interpretations of biblical morality". Above you gave the example of slavery, which many Christians truly believed was "genuine biblical morality". Christians used to kill witches, again believing it was "genuine biblical morality". Christianity is not consistent -- how many different denominations are there? And Christianity is not unchanging. You are proposing an unattainable target here.

 

[SteveB]

Elementary logical error there. You have lost those of us who expect logical consistency:

• YHWH exists.
• YHWH did not create Himself.
• Therefore YHWH did not create everything that exists.

QED.

Don't worry, you are not the first to make this mistake. The original error is in the stock phrase: "God created everything." Perhaps a little more thought before posting up a stock phrase in future?


Unfortunately us mere humans have no access to "genuine biblical morality". All we have access to is "current human interpretations of biblical morality". Above you gave the example of slavery, which many Christians truly believed was "genuine biblical morality". Christians used to kill witches, again believing it was "genuine biblical morality". Christianity is not consistent -- how many different denominations are there? And Christianity is not unchanging. You are proposing an unattainable target here.

I'm not the one who claims that YHVH needed to create himself to exist.
It strikes me as logically inconsistent for a self-determining being to create himself, in order to exist, and then be discounted because he's always existed, yet created, and indeed sustains all that exists.
I have a novel idea though..... when you've existed for all eternity, and figure out how you can create yourself, you let us know.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

I'm not the one who claims that YHVH needed to create himself to exist.
It strikes me as logically inconsistent for a self-determining being to create himself, in order to exist, and then be discounted because he's always existed, yet created, and indeed sustains all that exists.
I have a novel idea though..... when you've existed for all eternity, and figure out how you can create yourself, you let us know.

You can read the upanishads. See we are all God (Brahman) and we are playing that we are not.

 

[rossum]

I'm not the one who claims that YHVH needed to create himself to exist.

No, you made that claim. You claimed that YHWH created everything that exists. Since YHWH exists, then He in included in "everything that exists". Hence either YHWH created Himself (which is ridiculous) or else your claim is incorrect. He created "almost everything that exists," not everything. He did not create Himself.

As I said, this is a common error.