Rejecting the Biblical Doctrine of Justification by Faith

Are you distinguishing between justification in this life (which is by faith) and salvation from wrath on the last day (when additional things will need to accompany faith)?
Yes and no. I am distinguishing the legal forgiveness that comes by faith in the coming, death and resurrection of Christ from the necessary salvation to come that is outworked by living a Christ-conformant life in accordance with the promises: i.e. faith in action.

So appropriation of justificaton is by simple faith which is followed by faith in action.

I agree that "Faith" on its very own is as you say, "being persuaded of the truth of something." For example in the Hebrews definition of faith:

Hebrews 11 1-3
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for.
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.


To understand that God created the universe without using prior matter but creating new matter, the visible out of the invisible, is simply a mental act of believing something. You can't put your trust in that belief itself, but it's simply a question of whether you believe it or not. The demons, for example, believe it, as James would say and as you mentioned. But you can build on that belief in order to believe other things - things in which you can indeed put your trust, such as believing and putting your trust in God's promise. Because of your belief that God creates, you can then believe God's promise that He will create new life, as Abraham did (Romans 4:20). And putting your trust in this belief means that you will act accordingly. Abraham, for example, picked up his tents and moved to the promised land. For us, to act accordingly is to be patient while we await the second coming and to endure in our lives in Christ, doing good (Romans 2:6-7). So in sum, when what you are believing is simply a fact that is already true (e.g. that God exists, God created the world, God created a child for Abraham, God resurrected Jesus), then that is faith "on its own" or "by itself" (James 2:17) which even demons are capable of (believing what they know to be facts). But when what you believe is something that is unseen because it still lies in our future, as in believing a Promise that God has made (e.g. that God saves all who call on Him, that God can unite you with Christ, that coming into union with Christ means you are justified to receive from him and share in the same eternal life that Jesus has), then that belief becomes something that alters what you do, like picking up your tents to move or calling on God or being baptized into Jesus or patiently persevering in doing good - and we can call this putting your trust in your belief or your trust in the Promise or your trust in God.

Would you agree with this, or how would you modify it?
Yes, I essentially agree: there is belief in the historical sacrifice of the historical Christ, and also in God's purposes in bringing it about, and also in God's promises, and all are necessary for salvation. Belief in what is past and accomplished is what justifies, belief in what is to come (requiring faith to be put into action) is what gurantees salvation. Demons lack all elements of belief except in the very existence of God, for there is no sacrifice for the sins of demons, who rejected heaven itself.
 
Abraham first contact with God, how come it wasn't just a perfect faith first?

God directly talks to him. How is that possible if he doesn't even have a perfect faith to start with?

You think when GOD is TALKING to Abraham there is some kind of struggle of faith where He doesn't believe God exists or is real?

No God talks to him. God is Love and speaks to him and the good samaritan. This idea of exclusivity is not shared in scriptures.
God speaks the same way to us all who has met Him by the Spirit He is and He is manifest in our mortal man just as He spoke to Adam, and he became like Hod to know this difference, Abraham, Moses, Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room and all today He speaks to the same way.

Trouble with religious minds today is they dont know how to listen, they are to busy dictating to their own beiefs for a god to hear.
 
Yes and no. I am distinguishing the legal forgiveness that comes by faith in the coming, death and resurrection of Christ from the necessary salvation to come that is outworked by living a Christ-conformant life in accordance with the promises: i.e. faith in action.
Faith in action will reveal the Christ within you, which is to be anointed of Gods same disposition of mind, or Spirit the mind is referred to.

1 John 3 and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. Not many has seen, they are looking for another god of flesh instead. See Luke 17:20-21 where He is and resides.
So appropriation of justificaton is by simple faith which is followed by faith in action.
Which will produce the Christ within.
Yes, I essentially agree: there is belief in the historical sacrifice of the historical Christ, and also in God's purposes in bringing it about, and also in God's promises, and all are necessary for salvation. Belief in what is past and accomplished is what justifies,
Justification comes the day you receive from God the same as all of these we read of who recieved Him as their own disposition of mind. Even Jesus was not exempt from that fact proven in Matt 3:16.
belief in what is to come (requiring faith to be put into action) is what gurantees salvation.
Receiving in you what does come is what guaranteed salvation.

Never look for Gods explanations through your intellect, look for it in your disposition. it is that which is wrong. Christ is not what you say, Christ is what you do.

Salvation is being saved in order to manifest the life of Godas His son in your mortal flesh and it is those disagreeable things which makes us exhibit whether or not you are not manifesting His life as Jesus did when he out aside those disagreeable things and received from God Himself in Matt 3:16 where manifested the life of God that God Himself in my by His Spirit, mind, of Love.

Jesus was clear in that renewing of his mind that we also must be born again with that same renewing that he experienced from God Himself in Matt 3;16. That is what Gods salvation is.
Demons lack all elements of belief except in the very existence of God, for there is no sacrifice for the sins of demons, who rejected heaven itself.
God is only a belief until God Himself is manifest himself in you, and that is your own decision whether to let Him or not, for He is at your door knocking this day and anyone who will open that door and let Him into your being, He will come to you and sup with you and be in you. Rev 3;20. For the kingdom of GHod does not come with observation as a man as a god coming someday to save you, that will never happen, the kingdom of God is within you. That is where His heaven, the place God resides is. See Jesus in that in Luke 17:20-21. Not many believe him sadly. they seek a heaven they can go to and observe instead of living it this day.

God is a God of the living, not the dead, it is to late to know Him when you are dead and in a grave.
 
Why does the Roman Catholic Church reject the doctrine of justification by faith when God's Word teaches this quite clearly in many places?

Because they know it's not in your Bible but you don't.

What Paul means by the words "justified by faith" is not what you mean when you use the same words. The real question is whether you can get that through your head.
 
Because they know it's not in your Bible but you don't.

What Paul means by the words "justified by faith" is not what you mean when you use the same words. The real question is whether you can get that through your head.
So you don't know what it means, otherwise you would explain it, instead of rude comments.
 
I know exactly what Paul means.



Was that supposed to make sense?
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Clearly it says if someone claims to have works but has no faith the works can't save him.


24
As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

Clearly it says man is justified by his FAITH ALONE and not by his deeds.


2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Clearly says I have absolute LOVE as to move mountains but have not FAITH, I am nothing.

13
And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love.

Clearly says remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is FAITH.


I could give you bout 150 verses just like this. "OUR LORD GOD" its so obvious.
 
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Clearly it says if someone claims to have works but has no faith the works can't save him.


24
As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.

Clearly it says man is justified by his FAITH ALONE and not by his deeds.


2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have absolute faith so as to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

Clearly says I have absolute LOVE as to move mountains but have not FAITH, I am nothing.

13
And now these three remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is love.

Clearly says remain: faith, hope, and love; but the greatest of these is FAITH.


I could give you bout 150 verses just like this. "OUR LORD GOD" its so obvious.
If there are no deeds then there is no faith. That is a simple scriptural truth. But the deeds are Jesus' deeds in us.
 
If there are no deeds then there is no faith. That is a simple scriptural truth. But the deeds are Jesus' deeds in us.

Every GOOD deed has GOD as its source. GOD is LOVE. GOOD WORKS are REQUIRED.

Even Paul was saved because he was ignorant, not for any faith he had or was given.

THE MOTIVE, is not faith.
 
Every GOOD deed has GOD as its source. GOD is LOVE. GOOD WORKS are REQUIRED.

Even Paul was saved because he was ignorant, not for any faith he had or was given.

THE MOTIVE, is not faith.
You think Paul had no faith. He strongly believed he was right when involved in killing believers. He was a sinner. God drew him as he does with all believers. Then Jesus spoke to Him at which point he had faith. You constantly claim that you do works. You do not credit who does the works until now.

Good works are not required for salvation and they are not ours. But you pat yourself on the back. Good boy, clever you. There you have your rewards on earth.
 
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