Rekindling Amazement

JoeT

Well-known member
And what do you think about this - God's miracle through Elijah's Bones - is this support for venerating relics, in your opinion? In reading 2 Kings 13:21 it is written that "As they were burying a man, behold, they saw a marauding band; and they cast the man into the grave of Elisha. And when the man touched the bones of Elisha he revived and stood up on his feet." Some Roman Catholics argue that this verse supports their view regarding Roman Catholicism's obsession with the veneration of relics. How about you - what is your belief?
I take it you don't believe in God's miracle? Does that mean we should take the adage "Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" as gospel? Is the entire Bible a false book? You need to explain how a worshiped Book can tell lies?

JoeT
 

balshan

Well-known member
I take it you don't believe in God's miracle? Does that mean we should take the adage "Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" as gospel? Is the entire Bible a false book? You need to explain how a worshiped Book can tell lies?

JoeT
No the entire RC is a false church, it teaches false doctrines. But it is right when it says Jesus is the son of God both divine and human, He died on the cross and was resurrected. But it's Marian beliefs and its talismen etc are false.

The RCC lies and therefore cannot be trusted.

By the way Latin is not a biblical language and it is dead. We are to post in English.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
I take it you don't believe in God's miracle? Does that mean we should take the adage "Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus" as gospel?
Do you mean we should take the adage "Veritas in uno, veritas in omnibus" as gospel? (Both cases are fallacies of generalization.)
Is the entire Bible a false book? You need to explain how a worshiped Book can tell lies?

JoeT
W-O-W! Do you really and personally know people who bow down to a book? Who pray to it? Who light candles before it? Do they make statues of the book? Does the publisher tell them exactly what the book means?
HAVE YOU PERSONALLY WITNESSED THESE THINGS?

🙄
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 

balshan

Well-known member
Do you mean we should take the adage "Veritas in uno, veritas in omnibus" as gospel? (Both cases are fallacies of generalization.)

W-O-W! Do you really and personally know people who bow down to a book? Who pray to it? Who light candles before it? Do they make statues of the book? Does the publisher tell them exactly what the book means?
HAVE YOU PERSONALLY WITNESSED THESE THINGS?

🙄
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
RCs think nothing of breaking the 9th commandment. It is one of their very favourites to break.

By the way by quoting Latin back at them, they lose their feeling of superiority.
 

mica

Well-known member
Edit

JoeT
you again show you don't understand scripture. you use the false teachings of the rcc to discredit the truth of God's word. you put the words of men before those of God, making the rcc your god.
 
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Misfit

Well-known member
Unless you have a direct quote from Balshan of worshiping the book you are breaking the rules here. You are saying she is committing idolatry. And you are bearing false witiness.
Gee, that sounds a lot like what gets thrown at us all the time. We are idolators, we are evil, we are in essence the worst of the worst.
 

A new day

Well-known member
Gee, that sounds a lot like what gets thrown at us all the time. We are idolators, we are evil, we are in essence the worst of the worst.

Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, Hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To you we cry,
To thee do we send up our sighs,
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
so by her fervent intercession we may be delivered from present evils and from everlasting death.

How do you think the above sentences sounds? The above sentences go beyond the simple acknowledgment that mary was used of God in a special way. Those sentences give her praise and glory, as if she were our savior, instead of Christ Jesus; that do not belong to her, but to God.

God will not give His glory to another because it is immoral for someone to take credit for something he or she did not do. Most people understand that siphoning off the reputation of others or accepting accolades due to someone else is dishonest and dishonorable. For a human being to attempt to take credit for God’s actions is the height of hubris. Since God is the one from whom glory comes, He will not let stand the assertion that glory comes from mankind or from the idols of man or from nature

Compare
Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, Hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To you we cry,

with

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Isaiah 43:10
Before Me no god was formed, and after Me none will come.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:6
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Revelation 7:10

And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.

There is nothing in Scripture that even hints there is a holy queen. Nor is there any Scripture that says she is our hope. Our salvation and hope is in Jesus Christ alone, WITHOUT mary.

Ephesians 3:12
In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.
 

Misfit

Well-known member
The above sentences go beyond the simple acknowledgment that mary was used of God in a special way. Those sentences give her praise and glory, as if she were our savior, instead of Christ Jesus; that do not belong to her, but to God.
Context, as you folks like to tell us is everything. 1. Jesus is the King. 2. The mother of the King is called the Queen. 3. Mary is the mother of Jesus, so calling her "Queen" is not beyond the bounds of anything. 4. Orthodox Christianity teaches that Mary is the "Queen of Heaven, she is seen as "the woman" described in Revelation who wears a crown with 12 stars.
God will not give His glory to another because it is immoral for someone to take credit for something he or she did not do.
Go read the Gospel of Luke, and there you will read of her, a person getting more ink than 90 percent of all biblical persons. All generations shall call her "Blessed", now that is a pretty serious thing in the context of a biblical proclamation, is it not?

Those sentences give her praise and glory, as if she were our savior, instead of Christ Jesus; that do not belong to her, but to God.
No they don't. When Christians pray for each other, they become "intercessors" for each other between each other. The person puts themselves between another person and Christ. According to you, that would be wrong, so why do you countenance such a thing?
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:6
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Revelation 7:10

And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.
No orthodox believing person sees Mother Mary as the Savior, as God come to earth. That is something you folks have conjured up in your minds for whatever reason.

All this really goes back to one thing, is the Bible the sole authority of God's Word? Nowhere in it does Jesus proclaim that to be the case. that only the Bible is to be looked at to define the truth. Instead, Jesus says quite the opposite, that it is the Church which has authority; that it has the power to bind and loose things on earth that will also be bound in heaven; that he who hears the Church (through the Apostolic Succession) hears Him; and that He will be with the Church to the end of the age. The Church has decided things about Mary the Mother of God, and they exist with God's permission and in His truth.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Context, as you folks like to tell us is everything. 1. Jesus is the King. 2. The mother of the King is called the Queen. 3. Mary is the mother of Jesus, so calling her "Queen" is not beyond the bounds of anything.

There is no context in which that applies to Mary. None whatsoever.
4. Orthodox Christianity teaches that Mary is the "Queen of Heaven,

No, it doesn't.
she is seen as "the woman" described in Revelation who wears a crown with 12 stars.

No, she isn't.
Go read the Gospel of Luke, and there you will read of her, a person getting more ink than 90 percent of all biblical persons.

Mary is barely mentioned in the Gospels. Mary is never mentioned by one apostle or Jesus as they ministered.
All generations shall call her "Blessed", now that is a pretty serious thing in the context of a biblical proclamation, is it not?

No one denies she was blessed.
No they don't. When Christians pray for each other, they become "intercessors" for each other between each other. The person puts themselves between another person and Christ. According to you, that would be wrong, so why do you countenance such a thing?

There is not one instance where we ask the dead to pray for us in Scripture. Not one.
All this really goes back to one thing, is the Bible the sole authority of God's Word? Nowhere in it does Jesus proclaim that to be the case. that only the Bible is to be looked at to define the truth.

Except the bible is what defines truth. It IS the only inerrant word of God. We are to test teachings with Scripture just as the Bereans did.

Tell us how you test all things, hold to what is good if not by the Scriptures?
Instead, Jesus says quite the opposite, that it is the Church which has authority; that it has the power to bind and loose things on earth that will also be bound in heaven; that he who hears the Church (through the Apostolic Succession) hears Him; and that He will be with the Church to the end of the age. The Church has decided things about Mary the Mother of God, and they exist with God's permission and in His truth.

No, YOUR apostate church has done that....not HIS church, which is His body made up of each and every single person born from above, regardless of what 'church building' they sit in.
 

Misfit

Well-known member
There is not one instance where we ask the dead to pray for us in Scripture. Not one.
So, those people who followed Christ and then left their mortal bodies and went to heaven DO NOT have eternal life? Funny, my Bible says just the opposite. This is another reason that you should not attempt to interpret the scriptures by yourself, you just get yourself into confusion.
Tell us how you test all things, hold to what is good if not by the Scriptures?

They are indeed authoritative. The Church which is made up of real persons has the authority to decide things, and such authority was given to them by God Himself, incarnated upon this earth. Once decided, God will accept these decisions wholeheartedly.
Mary is barely mentioned in the Gospels. Mary is never mentioned by one apostle or Jesus as they ministered.

Barely mentioned? She is mentioned several times in the scriptures. At the wedding in Cana; then in Act's 1:14 concerning prayer; and at the Cross, and of course in Luke. Like I said, she gets more mention than most biblical figures.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
So, those people who followed Christ and then left their mortal bodies and went to heaven DO NOT have eternal life? Funny, my Bible says just the opposite. This is another reason that you should not attempt to interpret the scriptures by yourself, you just get yourself into confusion.


They are indeed authoritative. The Church which is made up of real persons has the authority to decide things, and such authority was given to them by God Himself, incarnated upon this earth. Once decided, God will accept these decisions wholeheartedly.


Barely mentioned? She is mentioned several times in the scriptures. At the wedding in Cana; then in Act's 1:14 concerning prayer; and at the Cross, and of course in Luke. Like I said, she gets more mention than most biblical figures.
So, those people who followed Christ and then left their mortal bodies and went to heaven DO NOT have eternal life? Funny, my Bible says just the opposite. This is another reason that you should not attempt to interpret the scriptures by yourself, you just get yourself into confusion.

The confusion is yours. She made a statement about praying to dead people. You completely changed the subject and said something irrelevant about those going to heaven not having eternal life? She said nothing about that. Unless youre now going to assume that just because human beings are in heaven they now have god like attributes. Do they? Does merely being in heaven now give a person the ability to hear prayers from all over the earth simultaneously? You changed the subject then called someone else confused. Nice.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
So, those people who followed Christ and then left their mortal bodies and went to heaven DO NOT have eternal life?

Please point out where that was said. When you have to resort to lies, you’ve already lost the argument.
This is another reason that you should not attempt to interpret the scriptures by yourself, you just get yourself into confusion.

You can't even understand what is written on an internet discussion board, much less should we believe you can understand scripture.
They are indeed authoritative. The Church which is made up of real persons has the authority to decide things, and such authority was given to them by God Himself, incarnated upon this earth. Once decided, God will accept these decisions wholeheartedly.

Whoa....so you literally just posted that God will accept decisions made by man.....so you just turned over the Sovereignty of God to man. Disgraceful.
Barely mentioned?

Did I stutter?
She is mentioned several times in the scriptures.

She is barely mentioned in the Gospels, because the Gospels are about Christ, not Mary. Jesus nor the apostles ever mentioned her in their ministry....again, because the Gospel is not about her, it is about HIM.
At the wedding in Cana;

So what.
then in Act's 1:14 concerning prayer; and at the Cross, and of course in Luke. Like I said, she gets more mention than most biblical figures.

No, she doesn't...
 

Misfit

Well-known member
Whoa....so you literally just posted that God will accept decisions made by man.....so you just turned over the Sovereignty of God to man. Disgraceful.
No, God said it - and He is not going to contradict Himself either. Here we see Jesus giving power to the Church, i.e. to the men who would be leading it, It's called "Gospel". Once you folks abandoned the Apostolic Succession, you abandoned much, thus then taking all unto yourselves.

17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

Matt 18: 17-19
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
No, God said it - and He is not going to contradict Himself either.

No, nowhere did God say such blasphemy.
Here we see Jesus giving power to the Church,

WE are the church. We profess HIS truth, He doesn't 'accept decisions' of man, we accept decisions of God. Repent.
i.e. to the men who would be leading it, It's called "Gospel". Once you folks abandoned the Apostolic Succession, you abandoned much, thus then taking all unto yourselves.

No such thing as apostolic succession.
17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Again, WE are the church.
18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

All Christians have this ability.
19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

Matt 18: 17-19

Pertaining to ALL Christians.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Isn't that blasphemy as you just said in your new thread?

No, I didn’t say we make decisions and God accepts them. YOU did. Binding and loosing doesn’t mean “make decisions for God to accept”.
Apparently, consistency is not a word that you take to heart.
Apparently reading comprehension isn’t something you take to heart.

Sure there is,

No there isn’t.
 

A new day

Well-known member
Gee, that sounds a lot like what gets thrown at us all the time. We are idolators, we are evil, we are in essence the worst of the worst.
Your the one who is wondering why your denomination is seen in the above light. So I showed you.


1. Jesus is the King.
The above quote we can agree on. Jesus is King of kings, and Lord of lords.

The mother of the King is called the Queen.
No place in Scripture does it ever address mary as queen. No place in Scripture does it even hint that she was ever divine and then came to earth.

Christianity teaches that Mary is the "Queen of Heaven, she is seen as "the woman" described in Revelation who wears a crown with 12 stars.
The only denomination that teaches this is the Rcc. No Christian church outside of the Rcc ever teaches that the woman in Revelation is mary.

The woman is not a picture of a single individual, but of the nation of Israel as a whole. No place in Scripture does it ever say mary fled to the desert for safety. The only other place in Scripture that gives the same symbolization as Revelation 12 is Genesis 37. In which Joseph had a dream that symbolized the nation of Israel as a whole.

Jesus was born as a Jew. So it is through the nation of Israel, that Jesus was brought forth. That is why Jesus told the woman at the well of Samaria, "Salvation is from the Jews,". It was the Jews who preached the gospel message to the gentiles.

Go read the Gospel of Luke, and there you will read of her, a person getting more ink than 90 percent of all biblical persons. All generations shall call her "Blessed", now that is a pretty serious thing in the context of a biblical proclamation, is it not?
No where in the epistles, do the apostles ever say anything about mary. The gospels simply say that mary was chosen by God over others for a specific task to be filled. The only denomination to assign "worthy of extra adoration and worship" as the definition for blessed is the Rcc.

No they don't. When Christians pray for each other, they become "intercessors" for each other between each other. The person puts themselves between another person and Christ. According to you, that would be wrong, so why do you countenance such a thing?
There is a huge difference in praying FOR each other who are HERE ON EARTH, and praying TO someone who is no longer with us. Two different words... FOR and TO. Rcc's can't seem to separate the two words. Huge difference. Huge.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
The mother of the King is called the Queen.
'Tain't necessarily so. King David's mum was not called the queen. That would have been Michal, Abigail, Bathsheba, etc. - the wife of the king. And look at Queen Elizabeth - her husband was not called "King Philip" was he? You are stretching logic beyond its breaking point to try to make the RCC Mary into something the real Mary never was - a pagan goddess. (But being ensnared by the RCC, you don't have much choice, do you? 😢)

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 
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