Rich young ruler exposes the error of Calvinism

Oldsaint24

Active member
There is an account of a personal encounter between a young rich man and the Lord Jesus. (Matt.19 Mk. 10 Lk. 18)
Briefly, a young man excitedly runs up to and kneels down before Jesus and asks, "What must I do to inherit age lasting life?"
Jesus states a number of commandments to keep. To which the young man acknowledges that he has.
Jesus felt love for him and said, "One thing you lack, go sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come , follow me."
The young man became disheartened and left sad, because he had much wealth.
Jesus said to His disciples, "How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter into the kingdom of God!"
Please read the full three texts, for this account, as I said, what I wrote is brief.
Now we don't know , we have not been told what the future out come for the young man; whether he did or did not sell all his wealth and enter into the kingdom; whether he attained age lasting life. But Jesus said that it is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter into the kingdom of God.

Clearly, the young man was a spiritually alive child of God. The actions of Jesus, "love for him" , is proof of that. The man did not lack spiritual life, otherwise , that would have been the most important thing he lacked. Also, the man was capable of storing up treasure in heaven by his actions. The unregenerate cannot store up treasure in heaven.

Obviously one lessen is that children of God can fail to inherit the kingdom of God......it is a possibility for the child of God to fail in acquiring age lasting life.

Calvinism does not teach those truths. The hideous error of Calvinism is failing to teach the children of God that inheriting the kingdom of God is not a done deal, not guaranteed by virtue of being a child of God. And the consequences for failing to do those things required to inherit the kingdom of God is severe.

We see the rich young ruler who obviously love things and money more than Jesus would keep him out. Perhaps later he did follow the command of Jesus. But what else do the children of God love more than Jesus that is keeping them from entering into age lasting life? What are they doing that will keep them from inheriting the age to come?

Lastly.....please note......none of this has to do with eternity.......just to help those who may be deceived.
 

Howie

Active member
There is an account of a personal encounter between a young rich man and the Lord Jesus. (Matt.19 Mk. 10 Lk. 18)
Briefly, a young man excitedly runs up to and kneels down before Jesus and asks, "What must I do to inherit age lasting life?"
Jesus states a number of commandments to keep. To which the young man acknowledges that he has.
Jesus felt love for him and said, "One thing you lack, go sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come , follow me."
The young man became disheartened and left sad, because he had much wealth.
Jesus said to His disciples, "How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter into the kingdom of God!"
Please read the full three texts, for this account, as I said, what I wrote is brief.
Now we don't know , we have not been told what the future out come for the young man; whether he did or did not sell all his wealth and enter into the kingdom; whether he attained age lasting life. But Jesus said that it is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter into the kingdom of God.

Clearly, the young man was a spiritually alive child of God. The actions of Jesus, "love for him" , is proof of that. The man did not lack spiritual life, otherwise , that would have been the most important thing he lacked. Also, the man was capable of storing up treasure in heaven by his actions. The unregenerate cannot store up treasure in heaven.

Obviously one lessen is that children of God can fail to inherit the kingdom of God......it is a possibility for the child of God to fail in acquiring age lasting life.

Calvinism does not teach those truths. The hideous error of Calvinism is failing to teach the children of God that inheriting the kingdom of God is not a done deal, not guaranteed by virtue of being a child of God. And the consequences for failing to do those things required to inherit the kingdom of God is severe.

We see the rich young ruler who obviously love things and money more than Jesus would keep him out. Perhaps later he did follow the command of Jesus. But what else do the children of God love more than Jesus that is keeping them from entering into age lasting life? What are they doing that will keep them from inheriting the age to come?

Lastly.....please note......none of this has to do with eternity.......just to help those who may be deceived.
Yikes!!
 

armylngst

Active member
There is an account of a personal encounter between a young rich man and the Lord Jesus. (Matt.19 Mk. 10 Lk. 18)
Briefly, a young man excitedly runs up to and kneels down before Jesus and asks, "What must I do to inherit age lasting life?"
Jesus states a number of commandments to keep. To which the young man acknowledges that he has.
Jesus felt love for him and said, "One thing you lack, go sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come , follow me."
The young man became disheartened and left sad, because he had much wealth.
Jesus said to His disciples, "How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter into the kingdom of God!"
Please read the full three texts, for this account, as I said, what I wrote is brief.
Matthew 9 "22 And the young man, having heard the word, went away sorrowful, for he had many possessions;
23 and Jesus said to his disciples, `Verily I say to you, that hardly shall a rich man enter into the reign of the heavens;
24 and again I say to you, it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to go, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'
25 And his disciples having heard, were amazed exceedingly, saying, `Who, then, is able to be saved?'
26 And Jesus having earnestly beheld, said to them, `With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' (YLT)

Mark 10 "23 And Jesus having looked round, saith to his disciples, `How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the reign of God!'
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words, and Jesus again answering saith to them, `Children, how hard is it to those trusting on the riches to enter into the reign of God!
25 It is easier for a camel through the eye of the needle to enter, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'
26 And they were astonished beyond measure, saying unto themselves, `And who is able to be saved?'
27 And Jesus, having looked upon them, saith, `With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.' (YLT)

Luke 18 "
24 And Jesus having seen him become very sorrowful, said, `How hardly shall those having riches enter into the reign of God!
25 for it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to enter, than for a rich man into the reign of God to enter.'
26 And those who heard, said, `And who is able to be saved?'
27 and he said, `The things impossible with men are possible with God.'" (YLT)

Consider what this is saying. It clearly states, as you seem to believe, that salvation is impossible with men, but God, though with great difficulty, may be able to, depending on you, save you. However, that isn't what is stated. He simply said no one can be saved, but God can overcome that and save people. Mark 10:27 makes it the most clear. This is also a shot across the bow of foreknowledge in salvation, for, as presented in other threads, God has to see people act, and have faith for salvation, and then God chooses them. However, Jesus makes it clear that it is impossible for people to act. It is impossible. However, it isn't impossible to God, since all things are possible with God. I understand you may not believe God is able, capable, and faithful, but some of believe He is all of those things. Able and capable of saving totally depraved people, and faithful to complete the good work that He has begun in us, in the day of Christ Jesus.

Jesus statement on the difficulty for those who trust in riches to enter into the kingdom (here stated as "into the reign of God") shook the disciples to the core, because, in their traditions, rich people are the first to enter into the kingdom because of their riches. They have been so blessed by God, they must be first in line. They kind of had the whole "Jobs friends" syndrome, believing that being blessed here on earth must mean one is closest to God's heart, and not to be blessed on earth with riches, places one at the very back of the line, if on line at all. I guess they forgot about Esau, who was blessed as much as, if not more than Jacob, but God utterly hated him, to the point of bringing his wrath down on Esau's descendants, because he hated Esau.

This situation with the rich young ruler is very much in line with Calvinistic beliefs. I removed the rest of your comment, because it was all speculation.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
Matthew 9 "22 And the young man, having heard the word, went away sorrowful, for he had many possessions;
23 and Jesus said to his disciples, `Verily I say to you, that hardly shall a rich man enter into the reign of the heavens;
24 and again I say to you, it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to go, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'
25 And his disciples having heard, were amazed exceedingly, saying, `Who, then, is able to be saved?'
26 And Jesus having earnestly beheld, said to them, `With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' (YLT)

Mark 10 "23 And Jesus having looked round, saith to his disciples, `How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the reign of God!'
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words, and Jesus again answering saith to them, `Children, how hard is it to those trusting on the riches to enter into the reign of God!
25 It is easier for a camel through the eye of the needle to enter, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'
26 And they were astonished beyond measure, saying unto themselves, `And who is able to be saved?'
27 And Jesus, having looked upon them, saith, `With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.' (YLT)

Luke 18 "
24 And Jesus having seen him become very sorrowful, said, `How hardly shall those having riches enter into the reign of God!
25 for it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to enter, than for a rich man into the reign of God to enter.'
26 And those who heard, said, `And who is able to be saved?'
27 and he said, `The things impossible with men are possible with God.'" (YLT)

Consider what this is saying. It clearly states, as you seem to believe, that salvation is impossible with men, but God, though with great difficulty, may be able to, depending on you, save you. However, that isn't what is stated. He simply said no one can be saved, but God can overcome that and save people. Mark 10:27 makes it the most clear. This is also a shot across the bow of foreknowledge in salvation, for, as presented in other threads, God has to see people act, and have faith for salvation, and then God chooses them. However, Jesus makes it clear that it is impossible for people to act. It is impossible. However, it isn't impossible to God, since all things are possible with God. I understand you may not believe God is able, capable, and faithful, but some of believe He is all of those things. Able and capable of saving totally depraved people, and faithful to complete the good work that He has begun in us, in the day of Christ Jesus.

Jesus statement on the difficulty for those who trust in riches to enter into the kingdom (here stated as "into the reign of God") shook the disciples to the core, because, in their traditions, rich people are the first to enter into the kingdom because of their riches. They have been so blessed by God, they must be first in line. They kind of had the whole "Jobs friends" syndrome, believing that being blessed here on earth must mean one is closest to God's heart, and not to be blessed on earth with riches, places one at the very back of the line, if on line at all. I guess they forgot about Esau, who was blessed as much as, if not more than Jacob, but God utterly hated him, to the point of bringing his wrath down on Esau's descendants, because he hated Esau.

This situation with the rich young ruler is very much in line with Calvinistic beliefs. I removed the rest of your comment, because it was all speculation.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. But it appears your thinking is not what I wrote or believe.

Let me see if I can clear it up a bit. Let me clearly state my knowledge and agreement with the Calvinists concerning the sovereignty of God in the regeneration of men.....an act of pure grace....nothing we do, say, think, will has anything to do with the Father of spirits giving birth to new born babes. The Calvinists have this right. I agree. It is divine truth. The Arminians should learn and accept this divine truth.
This sovereign act of regeneration is what makes children of men into children of God. If you are a Calvinist , I think we are in agreement with this divine truth. Also, once one is a spiritually alive child of God, he will always be a child of God and will never.....never be cast into the lake of fire; but will live in the forever with God. Again, if you are a Calvinist, I think we are in agreement with this divine truth.
But this is not the lesson of the rich young ruler. His question is not about "eternal life" but "age lasting life"......acquiring life that leads to inheriting the age to come.
The age to come is not....again I say.....NOT eternity. The life in question is the righteous life that secures for the child of God inheritance into the millennial kingdom ie. the first resurrection, the marriage supper, and ruling and reigning the Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. This what he is asking about and what Jesus is addressing.
And this is the error of Calvinism. Does the Calvinist dogma teach that the child of God can fail to inherit the age to come? NO!
Does the Calvinist doctrine teach that the child of God can fail to overcome in this life (age) and miss the first resurrection? NO!
Calvinism is a very clever and hideous dogma for this reason. Satan had it cleverly written......some actual divine truths, some half truths, namely misunderstanding divine truth....and one big lie by omission.
Can you comprehend how clever this false doctrine is? It truthfully teaches the child of God is eternally secure/saved, but hides the fact that the child of God can miss the first resurrection, marriage supper and age to come! And.....and because the child of God knows and feels he is eternally secure has no problem with sin that could/will cost him his inheritance?
Most of the teachings of Jesus and the NT is NOT about "eternity", "eternal salvation" "everlasting life". All God's children by virtue of being a spiritually alive child of God HAS eternal salvation, everlasting life already. What many don't have is age lasting life! You would do well to go through your Bible and highlight all the "aionios" passages and instead of reading them as "everlasting" or "eternal"......read them as "age lasting". And see if the Holy Scriptures start making more sense and harmonizing the various divine truths that seem to conflict with one another.
Fact..........eternity is not an age!
 
Last edited:

armylngst

Active member
Thanks for the thoughtful response. But it appears your thinking is not what I wrote or believe.

Let me see if I can clear it up a bit. Let me clearly state my knowledge and agreement with the Calvinists concerning the sovereignty of God in the regeneration of men.....an act of pure grace....nothing we do, say, think, will has anything to do with the Father of spirits giving birth to new born babes. The Calvinists have this right. I agree. It is divine truth. The Arminians should learn and accept this divine truth.
This sovereign act of regeneration is what makes children of men into children of God. If you are a Calvinist , I think we are in agreement with this divine truth. Also, once one is a spiritually alive child of God, he will always be a child of God and will never.....never be cast into the lake of fire; but will live in the forever with God. Again, if you are a Calvinist, I think we are in agreement with this divine truth.
But this is not the lesson of the rich young ruler. His question is not about "eternal life" but "age lasting life"......acquiring life that leads to inheriting the age to come.
The age to come is not....again I say.....NOT eternity. The life in question is the righteous life that secures for the child of God inheritance into the millennial kingdom ie. the first resurrection, the marriage supper, and ruling and reigning the Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. This what he is asking about and what Jesus is addressing.
And this is the error of Calvinism. Does the Calvinist dogma teach that the child of God can fail to inherit the age to come? NO!
Does the Calvinist doctrine teach that the child of God can fail to overcome in this life (age) and miss the first resurrection? NO!
Calvinism is a very clever and hideous dogma for this reason. Satan had it cleverly written......some actual divine truths, some half truths, namely misunderstanding divine truth....and one big lie by omission.
Can you comprehend how clever this false doctrine is? It truthfully teaches the child of God is eternally secure/saved, but hides the fact that the child of God can miss the first resurrection, marriage supper and age to come! And.....and because the child of God knows and feels he is eternally secure has no problem with sin that could/will cost him his inheritance?
Most of the teachings of Jesus and the NT is NOT about "eternity", "eternal salvation" "everlasting life". All God's children by virtue of being a spiritually alive child of God HAS eternal salvation, everlasting life already. What many don't have is age lasting life! You would do well to go through your Bible and highlight all the "aionios" passages and instead of reading them as "everlasting" or "eternal"......read them as "age lasting". And see if the Holy Scriptures start making more sense and harmonizing the various divine truths that seem to conflict with one another.
Fact..........eternity is not an age!
How does the child of God miss the first resurrection, marriage supper, and the age to come? You say it isn't eternity, but Jesus speaks to this when He condemns the religious leaders for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Not to mention the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Eternity is an age, and for us, it is the next age, that which comes after death. That place where blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
How does the child of God miss the first resurrection, marriage supper, and the age to come? You say it isn't eternity, but Jesus speaks to this when He condemns the religious leaders for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Not to mention the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Eternity is an age, and for us, it is the next age, that which comes after death. That place where blasphemy of the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
The child of God (regenerate) misses the first resurrection, marriage super and the age to come by being foolish, sexually immoral, impure, lawless, covetousness, unforgiveness.......need more?
The word is aion, which means age. The adjective of the noun aion is aionios which means age lasting. No matter how hard you try you cannot make an age into eternal/eternity. It would be like saying the blue is blue unless you want it to be red, then blue is red. Take the noun "week" which is a seven day period. Weekly is the adjective of week. You cannot go around and say weekly can be yearly, or monthly or for the sake of this discussion ....weekly can be everlasting. That is what the translators of aion/aionios have done with the word "age" and "age lasting".

Fact: age is a period of time, with a beginning and an ending. It can be of short duration or long duration.
Fact: eternal is infinite duration: everlasting, of or relating to eternity.
Fact: eternity is the quality or state of being eternal; infinite time

So can you see/comprehend that age and eternal can never be the same.
Satan is very clever. This is a grand deception in changing age lasting into eternal.
Satan can do nothing concerning the eternal destiny of God's children. He is able through various means (like deceiving) of keeping the children of God from inheriting the age to come.
As for no forgiveness in "this age" and the "age to come" for denying the Holy Spirit.....it means one is going to prison when they die. They miss the first resurrection and the age to come (the millennial kingdom). The disobedient children of God who go to prison when they die will be forgiven and redeemed at the second resurrection. A pretty big price for being a naughty child of God. Heavens sake, Jesus teaches that just being foolish and unprepared is enough to miss the first resurrection and marriage supper.
 

rhomphaeam

Super Member
The child of God (regenerate) misses the first resurrection, marriage super and the age to come by being foolish, sexually immoral, impure, lawless, covetousness, unforgiveness.......need more?
The word is aion, which means age. The adjective of the noun aion is aionios which means age lasting. No matter how hard you try you cannot make an age into eternal/eternity. It would be like saying the blue is blue unless you want it to be red, then blue is red. Take the noun "week" which is a seven day period. Weekly is the adjective of week. You cannot go around and say weekly can be yearly, or monthly or for the sake of this discussion ....weekly can be everlasting. That is what the translators of aion/aionios have done with the word "age" and "age lasting".

Fact: age is a period of time, with a beginning and an ending. It can be of short duration or long duration.
Fact: eternal is infinite duration: everlasting, of or relating to eternity.
Fact: eternity is the quality or state of being eternal; infinite time

So can you see/comprehend that age and eternal can never be the same.
Satan is very clever. This is a grand deception in changing age lasting into eternal.
Satan can do nothing concerning the eternal destiny of God's children. He is able through various means (like deceiving) of keeping the children of God from inheriting the age to come.
As for no forgiveness in "this age" and the "age to come" for denying the Holy Spirit.....it means one is going to prison when they die. They miss the first resurrection and the age to come (the millennial kingdom). The disobedient children of God who go to prison when they die will be forgiven and redeemed at the second resurrection. A pretty big price for being a naughty child of God. Heavens sake, Jesus teaches that just being foolish and unprepared is enough to miss the first resurrection and marriage supper.

Are you familiar with the work of Watchman Nee?
 

rhomphaeam

Super Member
Just a little bit. Why?

Your doctrine in the post I responded to is almost a verbatim position that Nee took in China in the 1930's. In Nee's life it was a Brethren leaning early on in his ministry that gave it it's formality. He never gave it up. I have found Nee to be one of the most cogent men of faith I have ever read. He makes a much richer account of salvation than the fact of dispensational teachings, he actually defines it is a way that is very easy to understand and read.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
Your doctrine in the post I responded to is almost a verbatim position that Nee took in China in the 1930's. In Nee's life it was a Brethren leaning early on in his ministry that gave it it's formality. He never gave it up. I have found Nee to be one of the most cogent men of faith I have ever read. He makes a much richer account of salvation than the fact of dispensational teachings, he actually defines it is a way that is very easy to understand and read.
At your word I will look deeper into Nee. Myself, many many years ago when I got serious about my faith, I asked three questions.
Who am I?
How was/am I saved?
Where am I going?
To this very day , those three question remain a focus when I read and study....and the reason I have the theology that I have.
 

rhomphaeam

Super Member
At your word I will look deeper into Nee. Myself, many many years ago when I got serious about my faith, I asked three questions.
Who am I?
How was/am I saved?
Where am I going?
To this very day , those three question remain a focus when I read and study....and the reason I have the theology that I have.

Nee only technically wrote two books - but even that is not strictly true. He wrote one book and then decided to publish the greater portion separately. The two books are The Spiritual Man, and The Salvation of the Soul. These two books are the start. Every other book is taken from his preaching notes. You do have to be careful, however, because one of his co workers from China, a brother called Witness Lee has published in the USA a series of books based on these notes and in some instances he changed what Nee said. I would avoid those versions if at all possible. Ill try and get some details to help you find the authentic translations before I go to bed this evening. But Nee really is very exceptional.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
Nee only technically wrote two books - but even that is not strictly true. He wrote one book and then decided to publish the greater portion separately. The two books are The Spiritual Man, and The Salvation of the Soul. These two books are the start. Every other book is taken from his preaching notes. You do have to be careful, however, because one of his co workers from China, a brother called Witness Lee has published in the USA a series of books based on these notes and in some instances he changed what Nee said. I would avoid those versions if at all possible. Ill try and get some details to help you find the authentic translations before I go to bed this evening. But Nee really is very exceptional.
Thanks
 

rhomphaeam

Super Member

Copyright ©1978 Christian Fellowship Publishers, Inc. New York
All Rights Reserved
ISBN 0-935008-31-4

The Salvation of the Soul


Copyright ©1968 Christian Fellowship Publishers, Inc. New York
All Rights Reserved
Reprinted As a Combined Edition, 1977
ISBN 0-935008-39-X Paper ISBN 0-935008-38-1 Cloth

The Spiritual Man


Most of the books that have been produced are by the same publisher. (Lecture Notes)
 

armylngst

Active member
The child of God (regenerate) misses the first resurrection, marriage super and the age to come by being foolish, sexually immoral, impure, lawless, covetousness, unforgiveness.......need more?
The word is aion, which means age. The adjective of the noun aion is aionios which means age lasting. No matter how hard you try you cannot make an age into eternal/eternity. It would be like saying the blue is blue unless you want it to be red, then blue is red. Take the noun "week" which is a seven day period. Weekly is the adjective of week. You cannot go around and say weekly can be yearly, or monthly or for the sake of this discussion ....weekly can be everlasting. That is what the translators of aion/aionios have done with the word "age" and "age lasting".

Fact: age is a period of time, with a beginning and an ending. It can be of short duration or long duration.
Fact: eternal is infinite duration: everlasting, of or relating to eternity.
Fact: eternity is the quality or state of being eternal; infinite time

So can you see/comprehend that age and eternal can never be the same.
Satan is very clever. This is a grand deception in changing age lasting into eternal.
Satan can do nothing concerning the eternal destiny of God's children. He is able through various means (like deceiving) of keeping the children of God from inheriting the age to come.
As for no forgiveness in "this age" and the "age to come" for denying the Holy Spirit.....it means one is going to prison when they die. They miss the first resurrection and the age to come (the millennial kingdom). The disobedient children of God who go to prison when they die will be forgiven and redeemed at the second resurrection. A pretty big price for being a naughty child of God. Heavens sake, Jesus teaches that just being foolish and unprepared is enough to miss the first resurrection and marriage supper.
So forget that a thousand years is as a day, and a day is as a thousand years. Got it. Also, it sounds like you are about to start teaching universalism. And then I read the rest of what you posted, and yes, you are teaching universalism. You are also teaching that God is not faithful.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
So forget that a thousand years is as a day, and a day is as a thousand years. Got it. Also, it sounds like you are about to start teaching universalism. And then I read the rest of what you posted, and yes, you are teaching universalism. You are also teaching that God is not faithful.
Don't. know what you are reading but it is not anything I have written.
 

Oldsaint24

Active member
yes, you are teaching universalism. You are also teaching that God is not faithful.
No I am not a "universalist" and no I do not teach/write "universalism". It just show you have not comprehended what I write.
There are unregenerate children of men who will be cast into the lake of fire...will experience the second death. I have never said/wrote anything to the contrary.
Perhaps you have failed to understand the difference between children of men and children of God? Or perhaps you fail to realize that even though the naughty, disobedient, foolish, unforgiving, covetous, immoral etc. children of God are cast into prison/hell/outer darkness and miss the age to come.............they will be redeemed at the second resurrection after they are judged for how they lived their naughty, disobedient, foolish, unforgiving, covetous, immoral, etc. lives?
You ought to learn this 'cause it is all true to the word of God and is confirmed by the Teacher.....who is the Holy Spirit.....if you don't know.
Oh, and I have never taught that God is NOT faithful. Of course He is and always will be. Perhaps you have not been taught that God is also, just?
"The Lord will judge His people." It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.
 
Last edited:

York

Member
There is an account of a personal encounter between a young rich man and the Lord Jesus. (Matt.19 Mk. 10 Lk. 18)
Briefly, a young man excitedly runs up to and kneels down before Jesus and asks, "What must I do to inherit age lasting life?"
Jesus states a number of commandments to keep. To which the young man acknowledges that he has.
Jesus felt love for him and said, "One thing you lack, go sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come , follow me."
The young man became disheartened and left sad, because he had much wealth.
Jesus said to His disciples, "How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter into the kingdom of God!"
Please read the full three texts, for this account, as I said, what I wrote is brief.
Now we don't know , we have not been told what the future out come for the young man; whether he did or did not sell all his wealth and enter into the kingdom; whether he attained age lasting life. But Jesus said that it is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter into the kingdom of God.

Clearly, the young man was a spiritually alive child of God. The actions of Jesus, "love for him" , is proof of that. The man did not lack spiritual life, otherwise , that would have been the most important thing he lacked. Also, the man was capable of storing up treasure in heaven by his actions. The unregenerate cannot store up treasure in heaven.
I'm not sure where you get the rich ruler being a child of God. He's surely an example of the impossibility of salvation by works. He's done everything but no matter how much he's lacking.

Jesus say "you lack this one thing" is hyperbolic. He's completely on the wrong path, trying to obtain salvation by works so lacks everything. But there is no need to puncture his bubble by inserting a thousand needles. One needle will suffice. The one area that Jesus knows the man will fall down on. In this case, his wealth. He is happy to work this that and the other way - all peripheral stuff.

But his being is wrapped up in the wealth that he has. And to give up his would represent his death of self. And that he can't countenance, and walks away sad.

Jesus asks for the death of self. Or death of the self-directed life. The death of the Adamic life. This is what we must sacrifice to enter the kingdom of God.

And we cannot do it. We will not do it in fact. It must be defeated by an outside source if it is to be defeated at all.
 

civic

Well-known member
I'm not sure where you get the rich ruler being a child of God. He's surely an example of the impossibility of salvation by works. He's done everything but no matter how much he's lacking.

Jesus say "you lack this one thing" is hyperbolic. He's completely on the wrong path, trying to obtain salvation by works so lacks everything. But there is no need to puncture his bubble by inserting a thousand needles. One needle will suffice. The one area that Jesus knows the man will fall down on. In this case, his wealth. He is happy to work this that and the other way - all peripheral stuff.

But his being is wrapped up in the wealth that he has. And to give up his would represent his death of self. And that he can't countenance, and walks away sad.

Jesus asks for the death of self. Or death of the self-directed life. The death of the Adamic life. This is what we must sacrifice to enter the kingdom of God.

And we cannot do it. We will not do it in fact. It must be defeated by an outside source if it is to be defeated at all.
You like to make things up Jesus did not ask him to die to self that is another passage. In this passage Jesus hits him right between his eyes and into his heart where Christ knows his sin is greed and the love of money and tells him to go sell everything and to follow Him.

Matthew 10
20 And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth.” 21 Looking at him, Jesus showed love to him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But he [a]was deeply dismayed by [b]these words, and he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.

23 And Jesus, looking around, *said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus responded again and *said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 And they were even more astonished, and said to Him, “[c]Then who can be saved?” 27 Looking at them, Jesus *said, “With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”

Luke 18
18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
19 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not commit adultery, you shall not murder, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.’[a]”
21 “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said.
22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
23 When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy. 24 Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
26 Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?”
27 Jesus replied, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
 

rhomphaeam

Super Member
Matthew 9 "22 And the young man, having heard the word, went away sorrowful, for he had many possessions;
23 and Jesus said to his disciples, `Verily I say to you, that hardly shall a rich man enter into the reign of the heavens;
24 and again I say to you, it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to go, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'
25 And his disciples having heard, were amazed exceedingly, saying, `Who, then, is able to be saved?'
26 And Jesus having earnestly beheld, said to them, `With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' (YLT)

Mark 10 "23 And Jesus having looked round, saith to his disciples, `How hardly shall they who have riches enter into the reign of God!'
24 And the disciples were astonished at his words, and Jesus again answering saith to them, `Children, how hard is it to those trusting on the riches to enter into the reign of God!
25 It is easier for a camel through the eye of the needle to enter, than for a rich man to enter into the reign of God.'
26 And they were astonished beyond measure, saying unto themselves, `And who is able to be saved?'
27 And Jesus, having looked upon them, saith, `With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.' (YLT)

Luke 18 "
24 And Jesus having seen him become very sorrowful, said, `How hardly shall those having riches enter into the reign of God!
25 for it is easier for a camel through the eye of a needle to enter, than for a rich man into the reign of God to enter.'
26 And those who heard, said, `And who is able to be saved?'
27 and he said, `The things impossible with men are possible with God.'" (YLT)

Consider what this is saying. It clearly states, as you seem to believe, that salvation is impossible with men, but God, though with great difficulty, may be able to, depending on you, save you. However, that isn't what is stated. He simply said no one can be saved, but God can overcome that and save people. Mark 10:27 makes it the most clear. This is also a shot across the bow of foreknowledge in salvation, for, as presented in other threads, God has to see people act, and have faith for salvation, and then God chooses them. However, Jesus makes it clear that it is impossible for people to act. It is impossible. However, it isn't impossible to God, since all things are possible with God. I understand you may not believe God is able, capable, and faithful, but some of believe He is all of those things. Able and capable of saving totally depraved people, and faithful to complete the good work that He has begun in us, in the day of Christ Jesus.

Jesus statement on the difficulty for those who trust in riches to enter into the kingdom (here stated as "into the reign of God") shook the disciples to the core, because, in their traditions, rich people are the first to enter into the kingdom because of their riches. They have been so blessed by God, they must be first in line. They kind of had the whole "Jobs friends" syndrome, believing that being blessed here on earth must mean one is closest to God's heart, and not to be blessed on earth with riches, places one at the very back of the line, if on line at all. I guess they forgot about Esau, who was blessed as much as, if not more than Jacob, but God utterly hated him, to the point of bringing his wrath down on Esau's descendants, because he hated Esau.

This situation with the rich young ruler is very much in line with Calvinistic beliefs. I removed the rest of your comment, because it was all speculation.

You should have been a sociologist. Functionalism with a bit of Conflict Theory thrown in for good measure!
 
Top