Roe v wade formally overturned

[BMS]

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Human beings are already suffering when aborted. Your opinions are unsound

 

[romishpopishorganist]

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What, exactly, sir, is "callous" about valuing pre-born human beings and wanting to protect their right to exist and be born?

 

[romishpopishorganist]

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Thank you for your opinion.

This particular forum is to debate abortion. This forum is not to debate theology. What the Bible says or unsays, what your opinions are might make for interesting debate, but these boards are to discuss abortion.

You will notice in my posts I do not bring up the Bible or theology for that reason--unless the abortion supporter attempts to twist the Bible into support for abortion that is. Even there, however, even IF the Bible DID support abortion rights, which it does not, it isn't relevant on these boards.

Please keep that mind for future posts.

I, sir, rest my case.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

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Oh? So profilers go around and literally murder children who are born in cold blood? Prolifers believe murder is alright so long as the life born? THAT is what you are suggesting?

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Sir, the right to keep and bear arms is explicitly mentioned in the Constitution. What that means, sir, is that however the government goes about protecting society, they cannot infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms for the purposes of self-defense, sport, or hunting. Now, the Constitution CAN be amended. Thus, if you want to restrict or infringe upon the right to keep and bears arms for the purposes of self-defense, sport, or hunting, that is all well and good. You can do that--by getting 75% of the states to go along with that and amend the Constitution.

The right to abortion is NOT mentioned in the Constitution at all. I notice, sir, that you continue to ignore this fact in your posts. You have not explained WHY the government may NOT infringe upon the "right" to abortion, when there is no such "right" mentioned in the Constitution, yet the government MAY infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms for the purposes of self-defense, sport, or hunting.

When we have mass shootings, the problem is not with the gun, sir. For whatever unexplained reason, the left seems to think that guns are conscious and capable of committing crimes like mass shootings. The left seems to think that the GUN is the problem, rather than the person wielding the gun. Guns, sir, cannot commit crimes. Guns, sir are not conscious. Guns, sir, cannot murder people. It is PEOPLE wielding the gun who are the problem.

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Not so sir. You see, unlike the left, the right is not stupid. In other words---attempts to redefine words and reframe debates, attempts at the use of euphemisms might work on people on the left who seem not to have the ability to think critically, but that does not work on the right. People on the right are too smart for that.

 

[Temujin]

What, exactly, sir, is "callous" about valuing pre-born human beings and wanting to protect their right to exist and be born?

It devalues the pregnant woman to the state of brood mare.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

It devalues the pregnant woman to the state of brood mare.

Why is the life of the pregnant woman more valuable than the life of her child?

If being pro-lifer devalues the pregnant woman, what does abortion do to her child? How does abortion NOT devalue her child?

 

[BMS]

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That is ultimately true, but the state supposedly gives Christians the right to be citizens. On that basis we can speak out for justice whether it is called politics or not. Remember, God created the earth and everything in it

 

[SteveB]

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Sounds like a biased view to justify the genocide of the unborn.

An acquaintance made the following statement yesterday.

ABORTION has never been about “choice”. It’s about escaping the consequences of your choices by taking all choices away from another human being.

There are a lot of things a woman can’t do with her body.
She can’t jaywalk, take illegal drugs, attempt to commit suicide, indecent exposure, or sell her organs to the highest bidder.

She must wear a seatbelt, or a motorcycle helmet if she is in most states.

A woman cannot assault another person. Laws always restrict what we can’t do with our body if our behavior brings harm to another individual.

The Law of non-aggression states I can swing my arm as much as I want, but the moment it hits someone else I’ve crossed the line.

Why am I not allowed to say, “my money, my choice” when it comes to my tax dollars paying for “your choice”?

Your monologue on gun ownership being a problem because of a few evil people who commit crimes with guns is a dangerous mentality.

It's curious that an armed private citizen was the one who stopped the uvalde shooter, while the police waited outside.

A private citizen who was armed stopped the gunman from killing more people in the church shooting a few years ago in Texas.

There are many documented cases of private citizens who stopped gunmen from killing more people.

Many more still which are on the police books which didn't make it onto the news.

So, you go right ahead and wait for the police. The rest of us will remain armed and ready to stop the shooters, while someone else calls the police.
Depending on how far from the police department you are, several minutes is the difference between life and death, and the shooter getting away.

 

[SteveB]

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Listen to whom?

You?
I have absolutely no idea who you are!
A name on an internet forum?

Jesus warns us about listening to false teachers. Paul, Peter, Jude, John, Jeremiah, and numerous other prophets tell us to avoid them.

So, you have yet to demonstrate why I should listen to you when you have followed the practices of the Westboro Baptist group, as well as the practice of atheists-- dragging the op completely off topic, and making it into something that it's not, nor ever was.

Thankfully, I'm engaged with local Jesus followers, who actually know me, as well as reading my bible, and praying daily, and regularly.

Perhaps you are a follower of Jesus. I have no idea. You could also be a jehovah's witnesses or some other cult member.

Not listening to you isn't going to prevent Jesus from continuing to engage me throughout my daily life.

 

[SteveB]

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If that's your case, you have a pretty weak relationship with reading comprehension.

This OP was simply a recognition that the United States Supreme Court had overturned a 49-1/2 year old "egregious error" that needed to be made right.

This OP was never going to discuss the importance of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus, nor the details of the future of the human race.

That you decided you needed to make this OP something other than it was, that's a you thing.

It is indeed written in 1 Thessalonians 5 to not despise prophetic utterances, it's also written in 1 Corinthians 14 that God is not a God of confusion, but of order.


Your points of discussion were not a problem. In their own right. You however created disorder, and changed the OP into something other than I designed it.


I have spent the past 22 years engaging a number of different people, with a variety of different beliefs, backgrounds, views, etc., online, in a variety of different forums, for the express purpose of telling them about Jesus, the gospel, truth, righteousness and judgment.

The problem is that you posted them to a completely unrelated OP.

They would have better served their purpose on their own OP, instead of hijacking this one.

We're commanded to fight against injustice, which abortion is.
To speak for those who have no voice of their own.

You have not done this here.

 

[BMS]

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That is ultimately true, but Jesus and the disciples did stand in public squares and preach the truth.

 

[Yahchristian]

All you need to do now is reclassify the victims of the latest mass school shootings as 560 week abortions, and the Supreme Court will overturn the 2nd amendment too.

The 2nd amendment gives you the right to own a gun. It does not give you the right to kill an innocent person.

I am curious...

What do you think the punishment should be for performing a 40 week abortion or 560 week abortion?

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Thank you for your opinion.

This particular forum is to debate abortion. This forum is not to debate theology. What the Bible says or unsays, what your opinions are might make for interesting debate, but these boards are to discuss abortion.

You will notice in my posts I do not bring up the Bible or theology for that reason--unless the abortion supporter attempts to twist the Bible into support for abortion that is. Even there, however, even IF the Bible DID support abortion rights, which it does not, it isn't relevant on these boards.

Please keep that mind mind for future posts.

I, sir, rest my case.

By the way, being you don't want to use the scriptures concerning this topic of abortion, then upon what basis do you argue that abortion is wrong?

You see, I believe abortion is wrong also because God's word tells me it is wrong and therefore I am not opposed to Roe vs. Wade being overturned, for I believe that at this time God wanted it to be for his purposes.



Therefore my problem here isn't that I believe abortion should be legal or practiced but rather my problem is with the churches who think that they are suppose to try to clean up this world in other ways apart from the the preaching of the gospel message and making disciples of those who accept it, this is God's way of cleaning up this world until Jesus comes and makes a clean sweep altogether.

For you won't do it by pushing laws but only by making true converts to the true God and the true Christ of the Bible one by one.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

If that's your case, you have a pretty weak relationship with reading comprehension.

This OP was simply a recognition that the United States Supreme Court had overturned a 49-1/2 year old "egregious error" that needed to be made right.

This OP was never going to discuss the importance of proclaiming the gospel of Jesus, nor the details of the future of the human race.

That you decided you needed to make this OP something other than it was, that's a you thing.

It is indeed written in 1 Thessalonians 5 to not despise prophetic utterances, it's also written in 1 Corinthians 14 that God is not a God of confusion, but of order.


Your points of discussion were not a problem. In their own right. You however created disorder, and changed the OP into something other than I designed it.


I have spent the past 22 years engaging a number of different people, with a variety of different beliefs, backgrounds, views, etc., online, in a variety of different forums, for the express purpose of telling them about Jesus, the gospel, truth, righteousness and judgment.

The problem is that you posted them to a completely unrelated OP.

They would have better served their purpose on their own OP, instead of hijacking this one.

We're commanded to fight against injustice, which abortion is.
To speak for those who have no voice of their own.

You have not done this here.

I thought you were finished talking to me about this, what happened?

You see, it matters nothing to me what you think about what I am saying, for I am not here to win friends and influence people but rather to reveal what God has shown me in his word and then if he wants to influence anyone by it, he will open their eyes and do so, but that is not my job but his.

So I have said everything I needed to say to you personally and that is why I didn't actually post my last replies to the OP unto you personally but rather unto all who are following the OP instead and if you don't like what I said, then don't pay any attention to it, for it wasn't addressed to you anyhow.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

It isn't, once the child is sufficiently developed to survive birth. If you are asking, why is the life of a pregnant woman worth more than a newly fertilized egg, then there is no point in discussing anything with you.

Why would there be no point to discussing anything with me?

Come on and educate the stupid and unenlightened pro-lifer why don't you? Tell me---why is a newly fertilized egg not worth anything? If that egg is not a human person--at the beginning stages of development, what is it? That is the issue sir. If you are going to argue that a newly fertilized egg is not a human person, then you have to tell me what it IS. Is it a kidney? A heart? A lung? A Loop of Henle? A turtle? A Thorax? A pre-frontal Cortex? What IS it? A cow? A pig? A duck? What?

Otherwise, there is a point whereupon the life of the developing unborn child becomes comparable to the life of the person bearing the pregnancy. Abortion should be freely available prior to that point, in my view.

Well, you are more reasonable on this issue than your leftist cohorts.

It ignores the unborn child completely.

Exactly! That is the whole problem--which for some reason, you do not see as a problem.

The unborn child is hers, completely, in a way that is quite different from the way that a delivered child is hers.

Pre-born child is dependent on his or her mother, the born child is dependent on his or her mother.

She has, or should have, complete control over what happens to her pregnancy,

She does. She does not have to get pregnant if she does not want to bear a pregnancy. Reproductive freedom means being responsible. In other words----reproductive freedom does not entail freedom from the consequences of one's bad choices.

Including the right to terminate it, up to the point where the unborn child is sufficiently developed to be sensibly regarded as an independent being. That is, at the point that it could survive birth.

Why from your view should the "right" to "terminate" the pregnancy be limited? Why not absolute up to and including birth?

I mean--it seems to me, sir, that we are either going to have abortion or we aren't. Why do you arbitrarily limit the "right" to "terminate" the pregnancy?

 

[Yahweh will increase]

That is ultimately true, but Jesus and the disciples did stand in public squares and preach the truth.

There is a big difference from their doing that, than their involving themselves with fighting against the laws of Rome and attempting to over turn them and which none of them ever did.

For I am sure that they knew from reading Daniel chapter 2 and 4 and from what Jesus also told them in Acts 1:6-7 that this was God's business and not theirs.

For Daniel very clearly says that God himself will put into power who ever he wants and also remove whoever he wants without the help of human beings and being this is the case, instead of involving ourselves in it, we should pray that he gives us the best leaders possible for our country and leave it up to him being he and not us, knows the hearts of all men and knows what he wants to do with every decision he makes concerning this.

Remember what God said to Samuel when he sent him to the house of Jessie to anoint who he chose to be King of Israel, " don't look at his outward appearance for men look at the outward but God looks at the heart".

By the way, Samuel was only sent to anoint who God had already chosen and he told him this so that Samuel would accept God's choice and not question it and if God wanted his people to have a say so in it, why didn't he establish a voting system for Israel also?

You should remember also, that Israel wanted a King like the other nations and were rebellious in that and God was not please with them because of it and he thus gave them Saul to reign over them.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

By the way, being you don't want to use the scriptures concerning this topic of abortion, then upon what basis do you argue that abortion is wrong?

Sir, as Christian as I am, not everything requires a special revelation from God to know it is wrong. There are pro-life atheists. God did give us a brain, sir. There are some things we can figure out through the natural light of human reason.

Now, when it comes to specific doctrines, like, say, the Trinity--there you need a special revelation from God. The light of natural reason alone cannot get to to a belief in a Trintiy.

You see, I believe abortion is wrong also because God's word tells me it is wrong and therefore I am not opposed to Roe vs. Wade being overturned, for I believe that at this time God wanted it to be for his purposes.

I am opposed to abortion BOTH because God's Word tells me it is wrong, AND because the light of natural reason says it is.

But this misses my point: many abortion supporters are NOT religious. Thus, attempting to use the Bible to argue that abortion is wrong--is a useless endeavor. Many abortion supporters do not accept the authority of the Bible because they do not believe in God, or they do not believe in the God of Christianity.

What is more: other abortion supporters consider themselves Christian, but do not accept either the authority of the Bible or the authority of the Church to teach that abortion is wrong. They think they are free to make up their own minds. Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi and ACO are examples of this. They are wrong, of course. One cannot be Christian or Catholic and support abortion. The point is that arguing the authority of the Bible with them is an exercise in futility. They do not accept the authority of the Bible. (That by the way is a problem in itself too.)

Therefore my problem here isn't that I believe abortion should be legal or practiced but rather my problem is with the churches who think that they are suppose to try to clean up this world in other ways apart from the the preaching of the gospel message and making disciples of those who accept it, this is God's way of cleaning up this world until Jesus comes and makes a clean sweep altogether.

I guess I can respect that opinion. There is a sense is which the job of the Church is to preach God's message, not clean up the world. In other words---we teach, as the Bible teaches that abortion is sinful and bad. It is up to the people to repent or not repent--and up to God to judge them. We have only to preach God's message.

For you won't do it by pushing laws but only by making true converts to the true God and the true Christ of the Bible one by one.

Because the goal of the pro-life movement isn't just about saving souls. Not all pro-lifers are Christian. There is a practical point to the pro-life message and that is--the desire to protect innocent human life. And this, not only because it is morally right to do so, but because----when we do not defend the right to life of the most vulnerable, when unborn human life is seen as fungible, ALL rights are ultimately up for grabs. Thus, in a very real sense, in defending the rights of the unborn, we are also defending our own rights.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Sorry but this is still a supposed "Christian forum" and therefore all of the topics would or should be considered in accordance with what the Bible teaches and I can prove from Daniel 2 and 4 and also from Jesus' words in Acts 1:6-7 that it isn't the churches duty to try and change who is in power in order so that they can be comfortable in this world.

This website is run by purported Christians, yes. But abortion itself is not uniquely a Christian vs. not Christian issue. One need not be a Christian to defend the rights of the unborn or recognize the value of their lives.

We are given the commission to have God's law revealed in our lives and to catch fish and get them converted by the Spirit of God and not to clean up the fish bowl, for that was never given unto us by God to do.

God's way of cleaning the fish bowl is through our obedience to catch the fish so that he can convert them and produce true righteousness within them, only those who think on the level of the legalism of the Scribe and Pharisees of Jesus' day will attempt to do this through laws and it never worked with Israel who should have been right with God already and it certainly wont with unbelievers either.

Jesus very clearly told us in Matthew 7 that many on the day of judgement would point to all of the works that they had done on this earth and Jesus said he will say unto them "depart from me you workers of iniquity" and he told us that it was because with all of their works, they were still not doing God's will and God's will is found in the Bible.

That Sir is what I am here to remind you of, for if you can't find God's instructions in the Bible for what you are doing, then you are absolutely not doing God's will but rather what you end up doing is offering unto God a work of your own idea (only religion) and such as was what Cain offered to God in the book of Genesis.

The first thing you need to do is get out of the Catholic church and come to the genuine faith that was once and for all delivered to the saints for you aren't going to get that in the Catholic church, I know because I was brought up Catholic, and I am sorry but I am not here to molly coddle people but rather to present the truth unto them.

That is all well and good. But there is, as I said, a practical side to being pro-life and that is--protecting the innocent.

In other words---protecting the innocent, vs. conversion and saving souls is not mutually exclusive. We can do both.

And--I have no intention of leaving Catholicism, sir. Why would I do that? Where would I go?

 

[romishpopishorganist]

This needs to be on several million t-shirts.

Really?

What of the politicians who refuse to do anything substantive about crime? Do you not see a connection between politicians not supporting law enforcement and violent crime?

 

[Temujin]

Sounds like a biased view to justify the genocide of the unborn.

Not really. I'm describing a biased view to justify the slaughter of schoolchildren as a way of maintaining a well-ordered militia.

An acquaintance made the following statement yesterday.

ABORTION has never been about “choice”. It’s about escaping the consequences of your choices by taking all choices away from another human being.

Your acquaintance is a fool who doesn't understand the issue.

There are a lot of things a woman can’t do with her body.
She can’t jaywalk, take illegal drugs, attempt to commit suicide, indecent exposure, or sell her organs to the highest bidder.

And? Many of those things are legal elsewhere. Arguably many of them should be legal where you are.

The Law of non-aggression states I can swing my arm as much as I want, but the moment it hits someone else I’ve crossed the line.

Which statute is this "Law" under?

Why am I not allowed to say, “my money, my choice” when it comes to my tax dollars paying for “your choice”?

You are. No one compels you to pay any tax. It is just a condition of residence in a particular area.

Your monologue on gun ownership being a problem because of a few evil people who commit crimes with guns is a dangerous mentality.

Are you suggesting that the US has ten times as many evil people proportionately than any other western country?

It's curious that an armed private citizen was the one who stopped the uvalde shooter, while the police waited outside.

No, it isn't curious. Its a damning indictment of the police force.

A private citizen who was armed stopped the gunman from killing more people in the church shooting a few years ago in Texas.

There are many documented cases of private citizens who stopped gunmen from killing more people.

Sure there are. There are also many documented cases of four year old shooting their two year old siblings with their parents guns.

So, you go right ahead and wait for the police. The rest of us will remain armed and ready to stop the shooters, while someone else calls the police.
Depending on how far from the police department you are, several minutes is the difference between life and death, and the shooter getting away.

Better to recent the shooter from gaining a weapon in the first place. Better to stop glamourisng weapon carrying as if it was something more than a penis substitute for those emasculated by the American way of life.