Roe v wade formally overturned

[BMS]

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Great post.
However Paul.had Roman citizenship and appealed to a fair trial. We are in the world but not of it.
I would however rather see better laws in place than bad ones.
God does rule and reign.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Who said it isn't worth anything? It isn't worth as much as a fully developed adult human being because it has none of the attributes of a fully developed adult human being.

So? Those attributes are all present in the embryo---they just haven't been actualized through development. But they are all there--that is--everything necessary for those attributes to develop is already there.

The unborn child is totally dependent on the placenta and the umbilical cord. The born child can be cared for by anyone.

What does this have to do with abortion?

Abortion is taking responsibility and dealing with the consequences of bad choices.

No, it isn't. Outside of the rare cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother, it is decidedly cowardly. It is an attempt to shirk responsibility for one's poor choices.

The only absolute right is freedom from torture. All other rights, including the right to life, are qualified in some way or another.

The right to life can be denied, yes; when a person is guilty of a capital crime.

What capital crime is a an unborn child guilty of--saving being dependent on his or her mother?

Because the fertilized egg develops into an embryo then a fetus to the point at which it is viable and can, in my opinion, be considered a human person. Anyone who thinks there is no difference between the developing unborn at the beginning and the end of pregnancy is a blind fool.

How so?

 

[romishpopishorganist]

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You know who are responsibility for these violent crimes?

Politicians who want to defund the police--and then, whey those same politicians refuse to protect their citizens from violent criminals, they get angry when the citizens arm themselves for the purposes of self-defense----and they want to take away their guns.

You know how to stop bad guys with guns? Good guys with guns! Gun control only makes law abiding citizens defenseless. Violent offenders do not care about gun laws. The left does not seem to make the connection between their bad leftists' policies on crime----and-----crime. They do not seem to make the connection between their utter distain for the police and---an increase in crime. The left only seems to support the police when the police are protecting leftist politicians.

Maybe the left ought to rethink their policies on crime? Maybe start there?

 

[Temujin]

So? Those attributes are all present in the embryo---they just haven't been actualized through development. But they are all there--that is--everything necessary for those attributes to develop is already there.

No, they are not there. Potential is not the same as actualisation. Otherwise Nelson would have built his navy from acorns rather than oak trees.

What does this have to do with abortion?

It is the reason why the pregnant woman, and only the pregnant woman should control her pregnancy, including whether or not it proceeds to term.

No, it isn't. Outside of the rare cases of rape, incest, or health of the mother, it is decidedly cowardly. It is an attempt to shirk responsibility for one's poor choices.

You You clearly have never met anyone who has had an abortion.

The right to life can be denied, yes; when a person is guilty of a capital crime.

And for many other reasons. Not all of which are brought about by fault on the part of the person whose life is ended.

What capital crime is a an unborn child guilty of--saving being dependent on his or her mother?

No crime. The unborn child is incapable of guilt or innocence, as of many other things.

How so?

How is the egg different from a chicken? How is an acorn different from a tree? How is a tadpole different from a frog? The physical differences are huge and obvious. If you think that these physical differences are offset by something else, then say do and provide evidence for it. Denying that the physical differences exist is just pathetic.

 

[SteveB]

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I have a simple solution for you.
If you ever find yourself surrounded by criminals who want your life, the lives of your family members, don't stop them.
And if someone who is armed and trained in the use of force asks if you want help, tell them no.

Although, if you live in the United states, you could simply leave the country.

We've actually learned the lessons of history and have no problem whatsoever with protecting ourselves, our families and our lives.

It seems quite clear that you would prefer to let criminals, tyrants, and despots destroy you and your family.

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Spoken by a guy who has repeatedly stated they believe there is no God, I'll stick with the truth.

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And yet you'd prefer to let such activities be lawful.

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You're a smart feller, go ahead and do your own research.

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And?

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I'm stating that the entire human race is evil, and requires a level of responsible people to stand up to oppose the unrestrained evils.

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Sounds like you prefer anarchy.

 

[SteveB]

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Then I'll listen for God's Word, and ignore your thoughts on this OP, explicitly because you have definitively demonstrated that you are not listening to the Word of God.

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Apparently you don't actually pay attention to the word of God.

Dan 2:19-23 WEB 19 Then the secret was revealed to Daniel in a vision of the night. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. 20 Daniel answered, “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever; for wisdom and might are his. 21 He changes the times and the seasons. He removes kings and sets up kings. He gives wisdom to the wise, and knowledge to those who have understanding. 22 He reveals the deep and secret things. He knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him. 23 I thank you and praise you, O God of my fathers, who have given me wisdom and might, and have now made known to me what we desired of you; for you have made known to us the king’s matter.”

Rom 13:1-7 WEB 1 Let every soul be in subjection to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those who exist are ordained by God. 2 Therefore he who resists the authority withstands the ordinance of God; and those who withstand will receive to themselves judgment. 3 For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Do you desire to have no fear of the authority? Do that which is good, and you will have praise from the authority, 4 for he is a servant of God to you for good. But if you do that which is evil, be afraid, for he doesn’t bear the sword in vain; for he is a servant of God, an avenger for wrath to him who does evil. 5 Therefore you need to be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For this reason you also pay taxes, for they are servants of God’s service, continually doing this very thing. 7 Therefore give everyone what you owe: if you owe taxes, pay taxes; if customs, then customs; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

1Ti 2:1-6 WEB 1 I exhort therefore, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and givings of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in high places, that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and come to full knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

Tit 3:1-6 WEB 1 Remind them to be in subjection to rulers and to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, 2 to speak evil of no one, not to be contentious, to be gentle, showing all humility toward all men. 3 For we were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and his love toward mankind appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy, he saved us through the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior;

1Pe 2:11-17 WEB 11 Beloved, I beg you as foreigners and pilgrims to abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul, 12 having good behavior among the nations, so in that of which they speak against you as evildoers, they may see your good works and glorify God in the day of visitation. 13 Therefore subject yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether to the king, as supreme, 14 or to governors, as sent by him for vengeance on evildoers and for praise to those who do well. 15 For this is the will of God, that by well-doing you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men. 16 Live as free people, yet not using your freedom for a cloak of wickedness, but as bondservants of God. 17 Honor all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Looking at these passages, it's pretty clear to me that YHVH's Word says we're to be engaged in political action.

 

[SteveB]

You refuse Edit per mod
You continue your diatribes, and monologues.
Your posts are completely irrelevant to the OP.

You've hijacked the OP for your own purposes.

There's nothing godly, righteous or holy about that.

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And yet you continue to disregard the OP.

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Pity you missed the point of the OP.

Those who are godly are rejoicing with great joy that God has done what he promised to.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

You You clearly have never met anyone who has had an abortion.

And you clearly do not know me. I have met several people who have had abortions and have regretted them. And that is a good thing. It is always good when people realize the error of their ways. And by the way--I do not hate people who have had abortions.

And for many other reasons. Not all of which are brought about by fault on the part of the person whose life is ended.

Outside of the rare cases of rape, incest, or danger of death, which I am willing to make concessions for, abortion on demand is the most cowardly thing there is.

No crime. The unborn child is incapable of guilt or innocence, as of many other things.

Then why is that child being put to death?

How is the egg different from a chicken?

A fertilized egg? A fertilized egg, sir, is a chicken in development. If the egg is not fertilized, then it is just an egg.

How is an acorn different from a tree?

It isn't--not in substance. An acorn is an oak tree in seed form. An oak tree is a fully developed acorn. The difference lies in appearances, but not substance.

How is a tadpole different from a frog? The physical differences are huge and obvious.

Yeah--so they look very different. The SUBTANCE is what matters--that is--what they ARE in ESSENCE. You seem to conflate appearances with substance.

If you think that these physical differences are offset by something else, then say do and provide evidence for it. Denying that the physical differences exist is just pathetic.

What does appearance have to do with the question of humanity?

 

[romishpopishorganist]

Bollocks. The only nation in the world with this problem is the only nation in the world that worships the personal firearm to the extent of making that worship an integral part of its national psyche. A person who feels unsafe unless they carry a gun, is a weakling, living in a sick society full of like-minded weaklings. There are no good guys carrying guns. Only cowards.

Spoken like a true leftist who believes people should reply in government to provide for them and take care of them, and rely on government to protect them. And---I would have no problem with that--but what does one do when the government refuses to crack down in crime and protect people--as is happening in many leftist cities in this nation?

How does one protect themselves and those they love, sir?

 

[Nedsk]

First let me say this, no born again Christian should ever have an abortion, for it is sin with God and I don't believe in abortion, just so you know this before I continue.


Nevertheless, while you think this is a great victory for life, you might want to remember that the majority of those born into this world will not repent and believe and once they are born, they will be responsible thereafter for every single sin that they commit unless they repent and believe and have their sins wiped clean from their record with God.


Furthermore, the Bible very clearly teaches that God has an election by grace and it also proves that none of his elect would have been aborted anyhow and so any saved from abortion that aren't his elect are only saved from death in the womb to still die a physical death later anyhow and then also after the judgment to die again in the second death and which would be far worse for them than their dying in the womb.

This is why I don't call what the churches believe about this "pro life" in accordance with what the Bible teaches and furthermore, I can't find one single scripture that supports the idea that God called the church to concern themselves this way over the babies of unbelievers.

Oh but by all means, if we know an unbeliever who is thinking about getting an abortion, we should witness to them about God and what he says in his word, but God never called his people to be a bunch of Pharisees who promote laws to make the unbelievers do what God says, for we already had this in the OT with the Ten Commandments and it doesn't work.

Also, God gave those commandments not to the wicked of the nations but to his own people to reveal unto them their own sin that needed to be dealt with in repentance and faith.

I will also guarantee you this, that you are not going to stop abortion anyhow, for now it will be done the way it was before it became illegal and even more often.

One last thing here also, for if the churches think that now the promise of 2 Chronicles 7:14 will come to pass because all of their prayers about this, they are dead wrong.

2 Chronicles 14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

For notice, 2 Chronicles 7:14 states only that if God's people who are called by his name (not unbelievers) humble themselves and pray and turn from their wicked ways, then he will hear from heaven and heal their land and not that if unrepentant unbelievers are forced not to get abortions he will hear and heal their land.

You will also notice that this thing with Roe v Wade being over turned has been in the making for a while now and still our nation is under a curse from God and that is because this is not the issue with God but rather the issue is the false doctrines that the churches have believed in and taught for many years now.

God has given us many, many years of his grace and mercy to repent from this but we have responded and therefore he is fed up with it and therefore judgment is on its way and neither Roe v Wade being over turned or same sex marriages being being made illegal isn't going to stop it either.

So babies should be aborted because the vast majority won't repent and believe? Is that what you're saying? Please tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Nedsk]

Lol! Learned the lessons of history? Which is why gunshots are the largest killer of young people in your country? It took one school massacre for the UK to act on firearms regulation. We have had none since. How many school shootings have you had in your lifetime? And you think you have learned? You teach your children drills for active shooters. You have armed police patrolling inside your schools and you think this is normal? This is learning from history?

It seems that you don't realise that very few countries are pre to despots and tyrants, and very few have insane gun laws like yours. Working democracy is what keeps despots and tyrants at bay, not arming mentally ill teenagers with machine guns. That is a lesson of history you have failed to learn.

You will need to find it first. And having found it, recognise it.

What have my preferences got to do with it? Certainly in my view some of the activities you mention should be lawful. Some actually are, where I live.
And what? I'm merely responding to your comment. Yet only a specific subset of the human race supports the right of its citizens to slaughter schoolchildren on a regular basis, via the the USA. Is your country more unrestrained in its evil than other places, are you saying? Why would that be specifically?

Anarchy is when citizens randomly shoot other people without consequences or attempts to learn from history and stop others from doing the same. Anarchy is private citizens who think that strong, wise people carry guns. Anarchy is what you have, not what I prefer.

You still don't get it do you? This isn't the UK. Like it or not in the US people have a right to own guns. Get it?

 

[Cisco Qid]

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That is not a decision for you and any other created entity to make. The fact is that in a republic laws are determined by the morals of the people whom they govern. If the majority of the people are corrupt then their laws will be corrupt and they deserve their fruits. In the same fashion if the majority of the people are moral (by moral I mean justified in God's sight) but then they allow the corrupt minority to make the laws by remaining silent then they also deserve what they get.

 

[SteveB]

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Rotfl.
No actually...
Like tyrants always disarm their citizens before they assassinate them.
Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Chavez, Castro/Guevara, and numerous others.
So, You keep telling yourself that the government is your friend. I know that the citizens of Germany, China, USSR, Venezuela, Cuba, and other countries didn't fare so well.

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Your preferences have everything to do with it.
You're taking on arguing with a complete stranger who has no problem with law abiding citizens owning guns.
You clearly have no idea what you're doing, otherwise you'd be having your arguments with the people who agree with you.

 

[Nedsk]

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Wow

 

[BMS]

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This is ultimately true, and Jesus does say give unto Ceasar and give unto God, but this doesnt mean we cant comment on what is right and what is wrong.

Now the love if many will grow cold and brother will betray brother, the biggest danger for the church is not persecution but deception. The Kingdom doesnt come by intellectual argument which can often harden people's hearts, but by revelation.

 

[BMS]

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The reason why that you describe is true but it wasnt all the Jews who wanted to have Jesus killed, the disciples were Jewish, and Jesus came as a Jew. Nicholdemus didnt want Jesus killed and the Romans, gentiles, actually carried it out. Careful we dont play the world's group identity game.

Also you are right that democracy isnt something that God advocates. Do you think Christians should even vote in elections?

 

[romishpopishorganist]

You still don't get it do you? This isn't the UK. Like it or not in the US people have a right to own guns. Get it?

As obsessed as Americans are with British Royalty, we might as well be the UK!

 

[Nedsk]

As obsessed as Americans are with British Royalty, we might as well be the UK!

I have no regard for them whatsoever.

 

[BMS]

It isn't a matter of commenting on what is right and wrong however but rather the churches attempting to control it and which God never called them to do.



Exactly and part of that deception is this were are discussing also, this is all part of that delusion from the apostasy of the churches (NT Temple) that Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 and that he mentions specifically in verse 11.

The Churches fail to see the truth in this passage because they think it is referring to the OT Temple and the Jews and which is totally false because the majority of the Jews were already in apostasy and have been ever since Jesus appeared to them in the first advent.

No, Paul is speaking of apostasy within the NT church and it was the truth at that time that was hindering it and which would be removed by the apostasy as per verses 3-5 and then which in turn would grieve God's Holy Spirit and cause God to remove himself also and as per verse 7.

The delusion that Paul speaks of is how they would twist the scriptures and read into and from them what they wanted to believe rather than what they really and truly teach.

In essence what Paul is revealing in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 is History repeating itself again and as we have Israel as an example and type of the present apostasy as a repeat in the churches of theirs .

God's position is clear, and Jesus warns things will get worse.. so dont worry.

 

[romishpopishorganist]

It isn't a matter of commenting on what is right and wrong however but rather the churches attempting to control it and which God never called them to do.

The Church is not attempting to "control" anything.

What? Is the Church in people's bedrooms? The voting booth? People decide for themselves what to do. But the Church has to preach and teach about sin.

Abortion is sinful. Support for abortion is not consistent with the Christian message or the Bible.