Rom. 4:6

Theo1689

Well-known member
Rom. 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (Rom. 4:6)


1) Can any Mormon please exegete this verse, and explain what they think it means? I'm especially interested in the phrase, "without works".

2) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide objective and unbiased (ie. not from the LDS church) evidence for such a claim?

3) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide an explanation of why Joseph Smith felt it necessary to "correct" Rom. 4:2-5, and Rom. 4:16, but not Rom. 4:6?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Rom. 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (Rom. 4:6)


1) Can any Mormon please exegete this verse, and explain what they think it means? I'm especially interested in the phrase, "without works".

2) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide objective and unbiased (ie. not from the LDS church) evidence for such a claim?

3) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide an explanation of why Joseph Smith felt it necessary to "correct" Rom. 4:2-5, and Rom. 4:16, but not Rom. 4:6?

Hey, @dberrie2020 , if you are so keen on discussion the place of "works" in salvation, why don't try to respond to the above?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
You may want to put that quote in a tad more context, Theo:

5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

So, both Paul and David exclude works of the Law of Moses, like circumcision, keeping kosher, etc., when it comes to righteousness. I just want to head off at the pass anyone who thinks that the "works" here refer to the Law of Moses and the ceremonial laws in it.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
You may want to put that quote in a tad more context, Theo:



So, both Paul and David exclude works of the Law of Moses, like circumcision, keeping kosher, etc., when it comes to righteousness. I just want to head off at the pass anyone who thinks that the "works" here refer to the Law of Moses and the ceremonial laws in it.

Um, Mormons?

So no one wants to actually discuss MORMONISM?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I guess not! What a shame! But then, remember what I quoted on here from Markk on another thread....

Check your email please, Theo.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Rom. 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (Rom. 4:6)


1) Can any Mormon please exegete this verse, and explain what they think it means? I'm especially interested in the phrase, "without works".

2) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide objective and unbiased (ie. not from the LDS church) evidence for such a claim?

3) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide an explanation of why Joseph Smith felt it necessary to "correct" Rom. 4:2-5, and Rom. 4:16, but not Rom. 4:6?

So no Mormon dares explain to us the meaning of the phrase, "without works" in Rom. 4:6?

What is that phrase dberrie likes to use?

"Cricket choir"? ;) ;) :D
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Mormonism's "cricket choir" strikes again!

No Mormon seems able to explain what "without works" means...
Go figure!
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Rom. 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (Rom. 4:6)

1) Can any Mormon please exegete this verse, and explain what they think it means? I'm especially interested in the phrase, "without works".

2) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide objective and unbiased (ie. not from the LDS church) evidence for such a claim?

3) If you want to claim it was "not translated correctly", can you please provide an explanation of why Joseph Smith felt it necessary to "correct" Rom. 4:2-5, and Rom. 4:16, but not Rom. 4:6?
By “works” he meant specifically the works of the Law of Moses, as the rest of the chapter demonstrates:

Romans 4:

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


He was specifically talking about the works of the law of Moses, the most important of which was circumcision, in the eyes of the Jews at the time. The reference is to the Judaizers of the time, who insisted that the Gentile converts to Christianity needed to be circumcized, and become subject to the Law of Moses to be saved. He did not mean that one does not need to keep the commandments of God to be saved.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
By “works” he meant specifically the works of the Law of Moses, as the rest of the chapter demonstrates:

Romans 4:

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


He was specifically talking about the works of the law of Moses, the most important of which was circumcision, in the eyes of the Jews at the time. The reference is to the Judaizers of the time, who insisted that the Gentile converts to Christianity needed to be circumcized, and become subject to the Law of Moses to be saved. He did not mean that one does not need to keep the commandments of God to be saved.
Where did Abe's righteousness come from,? What was it based on?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
By “works” he meant specifically the works of the Law of Moses,

This is a common excuse made by Mormons.
But the "law of Moses" IS "the commandments of God".
There is no difference.



He was specifically talking about the works of the law of Moses, the most important of which was circumcision, in the eyes of the Jews at the time.

And that claim is simply false and unsubstantiated.
Circumcision was NOT a "work of the law of Moses" (it originates in Gen. 17, PREDATING the "Law of Moses"), and it certainly was not "the most important", it was simply an obvious outward sign of a male who was bound by the Mosaic Law.

He did not mean that one does not need to keep the commandments of God to be saved.

Again, you are making a "distinction without a difference", by trying to separate out "the commandments of God" from "the Law of Moses", when they are one and the same.
 

zerinus

Well-known member
Where did Abe's righteousness come from,? What was it based on?
By works:

Genesis 22:

16 And [God] said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Genesis 26:

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

James 2:

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
 

zerinus

Well-known member
This is a common excuse made by Mormons.
But the "law of Moses" IS "the commandments of God".
There is no difference.
It was a law of carnal commandments given to the Jews at that time who proved unable to live the higher spiritual law:

Hebrews 7:

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


The Law of Moses was a system of elaborate rituals and sacrificial rights designed to point them to Christ:

2 Nephi 11:

4 Behold, my soul delighteth in proving unto my people the truth of the bcoming of Christ; for, for this end hath the law of Moses been given; and all things which have been given of God from the beginning of the world, unto man, are the typifying of him.

2 Nephi 25:

24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we akeep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
• • •
30 And, inasmuch as it shall be expedient, ye must keep the performances and ordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled which was given unto Moses.

3 Nephi 9:

17 And as many as have received me, to them have I given to become the sons of God; and even so will I to as many as shall believe on my name, for behold, by me redemption cometh, and in me is the law of Moses fulfilled.

3 Nephi 15:

2 And it came to pass that when Jesus had said these words he perceived that there were some among them who marveled, and wondered what he would concerning the law of Moses; for they understood not the saying that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.
5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.
6 Behold, I do not destroy the prophets, for as many as have not been fulfilled in me, verily I say unto you, shall all be fulfilled.
7 And because I said unto you that old things have passed away, I do not destroy that which hath been spoken concerning things which are to come.
8 For behold, the covenant which I have made with my people is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me.
9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.
10 Behold, I have given unto you the commandments; therefore keep my commandments. And this is the law and the prophets, for they truly testified of me.

4 Nephi 1:

12 And they did not walk any more after the performances and ordinances of the law of Moses; but they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God, continuing in fasting and prayer, and in meeting together oft, both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord.

Ether 12:

11 Wherefore, by faith was the law of Moses given. But in the gift of his Son hath God prepared a more excellent way; and it is by faith that it hath been fulfilled.

And that claim is simply false and unsubstantiated.
Circumcision was NOT a "work of the law of Moses" (it originates in Gen. 17, PREDATING the "Law of Moses"), and it certainly was not "the most important", it was simply an obvious outward sign of a male who was bound by the Mosaic Law.
It was required under the Law of Moses nevertheless:

Exodus 12:

44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.

Exodus 12:

48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Leviticus 12:

3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Joshua 5:

3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.


The Judaizers in the days of Paul likewise required that Gentile converts to Christianity needed to be circumcized, and keep the Law of Moses:

Acts 15:

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


The council of Jerusalem described in Acts 15 was held specifically to address this issue. Its verdict was communicated to Christians by a letter beginning with:

Acts 15:


24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law [of Moses]: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Again, you are making a "distinction without a difference", by trying to separate out "the commandments of God" from "the Law of Moses", when they are one and the same.
Talking load of rubbish, nonsense, as usual. The Law of Moses was a law carnal commandments, consisting of elaborate rituals and sacrificial rites designed to keep them in constant remembrance of the Lord, and also pointing them to the coming of Christ. Christ fulfilled that law, making it obsolete. But that does not mean that people don't need to keep the commandments of God anymore:

John 15:


10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Corinthians 7:

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1 John 2:

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 3:

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 14:

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:


14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
It was a law of carnal commandments given to the Jews at that time who proved unable to live the higher spiritual law:

Sorry, but the Bible does NOT teach any contrast between an alleged "carnal commandments" and "higher spiritual law". Try reading your "proof-text" in CONTEXT:

Hebrews 7:

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Ironically, this passage throws Mormonism in the garbage, as it is teaching that our salvation is based on a BLOODY SACRIFICE, but not the sacrifices required by the Mosaic Law in the temple (which don't occur in Mormon temples), but in the "power of an endless life".

Christ's was a PERFECT sacrifice, because He was an eternal being, and so an eternal sacrifice, as well as a lamb without blemish, being without sin (which was evaluated by comparing his actions to the MOSAIC law).

So there is NOTHING here about "a set of commandments of God outside of the Mosaic Law".

2 Nephi 11:

2 Nephi 25:

3 Nephi 9:

3 Nephi 15:

4 Nephi 1:

Ether 12:

Sorry, I'm not interested in bad fiction.

If you want to convince Christians of anything, you need to stick to the BIBLE.
Jesus knew of no "Book of Mormon".


Talking load of rubbish, nonsense, as usual.

Yes, but I've gotten used to you doing that, so it's okay... ;)

The Law of Moses was a law carnal commandments, consisting of elaborate rituals and sacrificial rites designed to keep them in constant remembrance of the Lord, and also pointing them to the coming of Christ. Christ fulfilled that law, making it obsolete. But that does not mean that people don't need to keep the commandments of God anymore:

John 15:


10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".


1 Corinthians 7:

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".

1 John 2:

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".

1 John 3:

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".

1 John 3:

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".

1 John 5:

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".

Revelation 14:

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".

Revelation 22:

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

That doesn't speak of a "separate" set of commandments outside of the Mosaic law.
So you're right, your posts ARE "load of rubbish, nonsense".
 

Bonnie

Super Member
By “works” he meant specifically the works of the Law of Moses, as the rest of the chapter demonstrates:

Romans 4:

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,


He was specifically talking about the works of the law of Moses, the most important of which was circumcision, in the eyes of the Jews at the time. The reference is to the Judaizers of the time, who insisted that the Gentile converts to Christianity needed to be circumcized, and become subject to the Law of Moses to be saved. He did not mean that one does not need to keep the commandments of God to be saved.
But Paul still said Abe and we have the righteousness by faith--not by works of any kind.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
It was a law of carnal commandments given to the Jews at that time who proved unable to live the higher spiritual law:

Hebrews 7:

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


The Law of Moses was a system of elaborate rituals and sacrificial rights designed to point them to Christ:

2 Nephi 11:

4 Behold, my soul delighteth in proving unto my people the truth of the bcoming of Christ; for, for this end hath the law of Moses been given; and all things which have been given of God from the beginning of the world, unto man, are the typifying of him.

2 Nephi 25:

24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we akeep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
• • •
30 And, inasmuch as it shall be expedient, ye must keep the performances and ordinances of God until the law shall be fulfilled which was given unto Moses.

3 Nephi 9:

17 And as many as have received me, to them have I given to become the sons of God; and even so will I to as many as shall believe on my name, for behold, by me redemption cometh, and in me is the law of Moses fulfilled.

3 Nephi 15:

2 And it came to pass that when Jesus had said these words he perceived that there were some among them who marveled, and wondered what he would concerning the law of Moses; for they understood not the saying that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
3 And he said unto them: Marvel not that I said unto you that old things had passed away, and that all things had become new.
4 Behold, I say unto you that the law is fulfilled that was given unto Moses.
5 Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.
6 Behold, I do not destroy the prophets, for as many as have not been fulfilled in me, verily I say unto you, shall all be fulfilled.
7 And because I said unto you that old things have passed away, I do not destroy that which hath been spoken concerning things which are to come.
8 For behold, the covenant which I have made with my people is not all fulfilled; but the law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me.
9 Behold, I am the law, and the light. Look unto me, and endure to the end, and ye shall live; for unto him that endureth to the end will I give eternal life.
10 Behold, I have given unto you the commandments; therefore keep my commandments. And this is the law and the prophets, for they truly testified of me.

4 Nephi 1:

12 And they did not walk any more after the performances and ordinances of the law of Moses; but they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God, continuing in fasting and prayer, and in meeting together oft, both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord.

Ether 12:

11 Wherefore, by faith was the law of Moses given. But in the gift of his Son hath God prepared a more excellent way; and it is by faith that it hath been fulfilled.


It was required under the Law of Moses nevertheless:

Exodus 12:

44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.

Exodus 12:

48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Leviticus 12:

3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

Joshua 5:

3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.


The Judaizers in the days of Paul likewise required that Gentile converts to Christianity needed to be circumcized, and keep the Law of Moses:

Acts 15:

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


The council of Jerusalem described in Acts 15 was held specifically to address this issue. Its verdict was communicated to Christians by a letter beginning with:

Acts 15:


24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law [of Moses]: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Talking load of rubbish, nonsense, as usual. The Law of Moses was a law carnal commandments, consisting of elaborate rituals and sacrificial rites designed to keep them in constant remembrance of the Lord, and also pointing them to the coming of Christ. Christ fulfilled that law, making it obsolete. But that does not mean that people don't need to keep the commandments of God anymore:

John 15:


10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 Corinthians 7:

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1 John 2:

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 3:

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1 John 3:

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1 John 5:

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Revelation 14:

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 22:


14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Are those commandments obeyed IN faith IN salvation, or FOR salvation?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
By works:

Genesis 22:

16 And [God] said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Genesis 26:

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

James 2:

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
In my Bible, Genesis 15 comes before Genesis 22 and 26....What does Genesis 15 say, Zerinus?

"Abram BELIEVED God and it was counted to him as righteousness."

WHAT was counted to Abram as righteousness, Zerinus? In Genesis 15?

Remember what Hebrews 22 says?

By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.....By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.

BY WHAT did Abraham obey God? Care to tell us?

Oh, and I guess you forgot--justify, in some contexts, means "vindicated." Abe's faith was VINDICATED, PROVEN by His obedience to God.
 
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