Theo1689
Well-known member
Since some people are trying to jump to conclusions based on a single verse in Rom. 5 ("proof-texting", "out of context", "eisegesis"), I thought it would be useful to walk through the chapter. Paul's epistle flows so well that it's difficult to start at a given chapter, since everything flows naturally and logically from the first chapter to the last. That's why I recommend that people read through the ENTIRE book every day for a month. I got this sugggestion from John MacArthur, who does this same thing when preparing for his sermons. He would recommend that you read Rom. 1-8 every day for a month, and then Rom. 9-16 every day for a month. And I would finish that off with reading the ENTIRETY a few times.
So a very brief review:
Rom. 1 - Jews have the Mosaic Law;
Rom. 2 - Gentiles also have the Law, written on their hearts;
Rom. 3 - The Law was never meant to save, but to convict us of our sin (Rom. 3:19-20).
Rom. 3-4 - We are justified by grace (3:24, 4:16), through faith (3:22,25,26,27,30,31, 4:5,9,11,13,14,16,22)
Rom. 4 - Justified without works (4:2,4-6), saved because our "sins are covered" (4:7).
Now to chapter 5...
Rom. 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Note that this entire section is referring to a specific group, "we" and "our" and "us", and it identifies this group "us" as:
- have been justified by faith (v.1);
- have peace with God (v.2);
- Jesus is our Lord (v.2);
- rejoice in our sufferings (v.3);
- God's love poured into our hearts (v.5);
- The Holy Spirit has been given to us (v.5).
This is clearly not referring to or including "everyone", since not all have been justified, or given the Holy Spirit, or rejoice in suffering, or recgonize Jesus as Lord.
Rom. 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Christ died "for the ungodly".
He didn't die for those who "did good works".
He died for SINNERS.
And many think this verse is trying to teach us "how many" Christ died for ("everyone"), but the preceding verses rule that out. He is referring to the KIND of people Christ died for. In fact, in the next few verses he contrasts Christ's work with those we might die for. One would have to be a hero for us to die for them. But Christ isn't like that, He died for the type of people who were ungodly sinners.
And He died for us WHILE we were ungodly. He didn't wait for us to "stop being ungodly", we were still in the midst of ungodly acts when He died for us. He didn't die for us "because" of our righteousness, He died for us DESPITE our UNrighteousness.
Rom. 5:7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
So Paul contrasts the human mindset ("we might die for a good person") with the Divine mindset ("Christ died for sinners"). And he repeats the truth from v.6 for us, that Christ died for us "WHILE we were STILL sinners". He didn't wait for us to "stop sinning". He didn't wait for us to "do our part". As Paul explains elsewhere, we were busy being "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13)
Rom. 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
These sinners whom Christ died for "have NOW BEEN JUSTIFIED by his blood", this proves limited atonement. If "Christ died for the ungodly" refers to ALL sinners, then they must all "have now been justified". But no, Paul went back to the same "we" pronouns from the start of the chapter, showing that he is referring SPECIFICALLY to those who look to Christ as Lord, and have been given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our earnest, our guarantee (Rom. 4:16, 2 Cor. 1:22, 5:5, Eph. 1:14) that we will escape the wrath of God.
Rom. 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Again, Paul is still referring to the elect, the "we", the one represented by the "blessed man" in 4:6-7. And we were reconciled to God "WHILE we were enemies", not after we "responded positively" in some way. And we were reconciled by the DEATH of the Son, not by our "acceptance" of the atonement.
Rom. 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
1) sin came into the world through [Adam];
2) the wages of sin is death;
3) since all men sin, all men die.
This continues to pose a conundrum for the Pelagian-minded, who thinks it's impossible to remain sinless.
Where does the Bible teach you can remain sinless?
And how would that not be a contradiction to Scripture (Eccl. 7:20, Rom. 3:19-20, 23, etc.)?
And where is this (apparently) still-living man, who apparently has never died, since he never sinned?
Rom. 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Sin has been in the world since Adam, the law was only needed to formally convict us of our sin.
Rom. 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
"Death reigned". As Barnes describes in his commentary, death ruled a monarchy, which was universal, until Christ came with the gospel.
TULIP count:
Total Depravity - Rom. 5:14
Unconditional Election - Rom. 5:6,8,10
Limited Atonement - Rom. 5:9
Irresistible Grace - Rom. 5:10
Perseverance - Rom. 5:9-10
So a very brief review:
Rom. 1 - Jews have the Mosaic Law;
Rom. 2 - Gentiles also have the Law, written on their hearts;
Rom. 3 - The Law was never meant to save, but to convict us of our sin (Rom. 3:19-20).
Rom. 3-4 - We are justified by grace (3:24, 4:16), through faith (3:22,25,26,27,30,31, 4:5,9,11,13,14,16,22)
Rom. 4 - Justified without works (4:2,4-6), saved because our "sins are covered" (4:7).
Now to chapter 5...
Rom. 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
Note that this entire section is referring to a specific group, "we" and "our" and "us", and it identifies this group "us" as:
- have been justified by faith (v.1);
- have peace with God (v.2);
- Jesus is our Lord (v.2);
- rejoice in our sufferings (v.3);
- God's love poured into our hearts (v.5);
- The Holy Spirit has been given to us (v.5).
This is clearly not referring to or including "everyone", since not all have been justified, or given the Holy Spirit, or rejoice in suffering, or recgonize Jesus as Lord.
Rom. 5:6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Christ died "for the ungodly".
He didn't die for those who "did good works".
He died for SINNERS.
And many think this verse is trying to teach us "how many" Christ died for ("everyone"), but the preceding verses rule that out. He is referring to the KIND of people Christ died for. In fact, in the next few verses he contrasts Christ's work with those we might die for. One would have to be a hero for us to die for them. But Christ isn't like that, He died for the type of people who were ungodly sinners.
And He died for us WHILE we were ungodly. He didn't wait for us to "stop being ungodly", we were still in the midst of ungodly acts when He died for us. He didn't die for us "because" of our righteousness, He died for us DESPITE our UNrighteousness.
Rom. 5:7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
So Paul contrasts the human mindset ("we might die for a good person") with the Divine mindset ("Christ died for sinners"). And he repeats the truth from v.6 for us, that Christ died for us "WHILE we were STILL sinners". He didn't wait for us to "stop sinning". He didn't wait for us to "do our part". As Paul explains elsewhere, we were busy being "dead in trespasses and sins" (Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13)
Rom. 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
These sinners whom Christ died for "have NOW BEEN JUSTIFIED by his blood", this proves limited atonement. If "Christ died for the ungodly" refers to ALL sinners, then they must all "have now been justified". But no, Paul went back to the same "we" pronouns from the start of the chapter, showing that he is referring SPECIFICALLY to those who look to Christ as Lord, and have been given the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is our earnest, our guarantee (Rom. 4:16, 2 Cor. 1:22, 5:5, Eph. 1:14) that we will escape the wrath of God.
Rom. 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Again, Paul is still referring to the elect, the "we", the one represented by the "blessed man" in 4:6-7. And we were reconciled to God "WHILE we were enemies", not after we "responded positively" in some way. And we were reconciled by the DEATH of the Son, not by our "acceptance" of the atonement.
Rom. 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—
1) sin came into the world through [Adam];
2) the wages of sin is death;
3) since all men sin, all men die.
This continues to pose a conundrum for the Pelagian-minded, who thinks it's impossible to remain sinless.
Where does the Bible teach you can remain sinless?
And how would that not be a contradiction to Scripture (Eccl. 7:20, Rom. 3:19-20, 23, etc.)?
And where is this (apparently) still-living man, who apparently has never died, since he never sinned?
Rom. 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Sin has been in the world since Adam, the law was only needed to formally convict us of our sin.
Rom. 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
"Death reigned". As Barnes describes in his commentary, death ruled a monarchy, which was universal, until Christ came with the gospel.
TULIP count:
Total Depravity - Rom. 5:14
Unconditional Election - Rom. 5:6,8,10
Limited Atonement - Rom. 5:9
Irresistible Grace - Rom. 5:10
Perseverance - Rom. 5:9-10