Roman Catholic Confession and Penance

balshan

Well-known member
What are your thoughts about the Roman Catholic teaching that men need a human priest to absolve them from sin by means of confession and penance?
It is just another false teaching. Just think about recent scandals how can an abusive priest absolve anything for a start? Evil is going to forgive sin, really?

Jesus is all we need.

Penance is a joke - one condition for forgiveness is to make right if you have hurt another.

Catechism

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1459Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."


The institution fought tooth and nail from helping the victims of abuse, it was the media which finally got the institution to do something.
 
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RayneBeau

Well-known member
It is just another false teaching. Just think about recent scandals how can an abusive priest absolve anything for a start? Evil is going to forgive sin, really?

Jesus is all we need.

Penance is a joke - one condition for forgiveness is to make right if you have hurt another.

Catechism

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1459Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."


The institution fought tooth and nail from helping the victims of abuse, it was the media which finally got the institution to do something.
Not only is the RCC 'penance' a joke, it is a slap in the face to God. Their official teaching, from the Council of Trent, on the ministry of this sacrament, and on Absolution, which is still in force today states the following:
"But although the absolution of the priest is the dispensation of another's bounty, yet is it not a bare ministry only, whether of announcing the Gospel, or of declaring that sins are forgiven, but is after the manner of a judicial act, whereby sentence is pronounced by the priest as by a judge."
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
It is just another false teaching. Just think about recent scandals how can an abusive priest absolve anything for a start? Evil is going to forgive sin, really?

Jesus is all we need.

Penance is a joke - one condition for forgiveness is to make right if you have hurt another.

Catechism

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1459Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."


The institution fought tooth and nail from helping the victims of abuse, it was the media which finally got the institution to do something.
In the RCC today, what do you think the average, run-of-the-mill, Roman Catholic actually believes or disbelieves about the RCC's practice of 'confession and penance'?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
It is just another false teaching. Just think about recent scandals how can an abusive priest absolve anything for a start? Evil is going to forgive sin, really?

Jesus is all we need.

Penance is a joke - one condition for forgiveness is to make right if you have hurt another.

Catechism

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1459Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."


The institution fought tooth and nail from helping the victims of abuse, it was the media which finally got the institution to do something.
Oh yeah, the RCC truly believes that evil priests validly forgive sin and issues a curse of condemnation on anyone who does not believe what is said in RCC Canon IX which emphatically states the following:
"If any one saith, that the sacramental absolution of the priest is not a judicial act, but a bare ministry of pronouncing and declaring sins to be forgiven to him who confesses; provided only he believe himself to be absolved, or [even though] the priest absolve not in earnest, but in joke; or saith, that the confession of the penitent is not required, in order that the priest may be able to absolve him: let him be anathema."
 

Nondenom40

Active member
It is just another false teaching. Just think about recent scandals how can an abusive priest absolve anything for a start? Evil is going to forgive sin, really?

Jesus is all we need.

Penance is a joke - one condition for forgiveness is to make right if you have hurt another.

Catechism

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1459Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."


The institution fought tooth and nail from helping the victims of abuse, it was the media which finally got the institution to do something.
Garbage like this expose the rcc for what it is. They love to lecture to others what to do, but when it comes to them they're immune. The marriages they've destroyed, and families, the people they have molested....the list goes on. How have they repaired the harm?
 

mica

Well-known member
Garbage like this expose the rcc for what it is. They love to lecture to others what to do, but when it comes to them they're immune. The marriages they've destroyed, and families, the people they have molested....the list goes on. How have they repaired the harm?
they haven't. they don't even try to.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
they haven't. they don't even try to.
So right on, and as was said 'they don't even try' and yet, the Roman Catholic catechism official teaching #1389, on making atonement for sins, clearly states that:
"Satisfaction is expiatory by making up for the failure in love of God which is the root cause of sin, by voluntarily suffering to make up for self-indulgence, and by enduring pain in reparation for the harm or disorder caused by the commission of sin."
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
What are your thoughts about the Roman Catholic teaching that men need a human priest to absolve them from sin by means of confession and penance?
Well, confession is for absolution of mortal sins, not all sins. Penance is also not part of absolution, so you can be forgiven and not do your penance if you so choose. However, I think it makes sense of the way that God does things in the world, the way He worked with the people of Israel and the way He established His Church. God works through us and delights in our working together as a family to support and love one another.

It would be like me asking: "What are your thoughts on the Christian teaching that men need a book called the Bible for them to learn about God, what he wants and find salvation?"
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Well, confession is for absolution of mortal sins, not all sins. Penance is also not part of absolution, so you can be forgiven and not do your penance if you so choose. However, I think it makes sense of the way that God does things in the world, the way He worked with the people of Israel and the way He established His Church. God works through us and delights in our working together as a family to support and love one another.

It would be like me asking: "What are your thoughts on the Christian teaching that men need a book called the Bible for them to learn about God, what he wants and find salvation?"
So, do I hear you saying that the Roman Catholic sacrament of "penance" is what is necessary in order for a sinner to be forgiven and reconciled with God? Why can't a Roman Catholic expect to be forgiven by seeking God's forgiveness without verbalizing it to a Roman Catholic priest? What would happen if a non-Roman Catholic told their sins to an RC priest - would he/ she be absolved from their sins by that priest who heard their confession? Is a Roman Catholic priest able to forgive the sins of a non-Roman Catholic or not?
 
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RayneBeau

Well-known member
It is just another false teaching. Just think about recent scandals how can an abusive priest absolve anything for a start? Evil is going to forgive sin, really?

Jesus is all we need.

Penance is a joke - one condition for forgiveness is to make right if you have hurt another.

Catechism

1455 The confession (or disclosure) of sins, even from a simply human point of view, frees us and facilitates our reconciliation with others. Through such an admission man looks squarely at the sins he is guilty of, takes responsibility for them, and thereby opens himself again to God and to the communion of the Church in order to make a new future possible.

1459Many sins wrong our neighbor. One must do what is possible in order to repair the harm (e.g., return stolen goods, restore the reputation of someone slandered, pay compensation for injuries). Simple justice requires as much. But sin also injures and weakens the sinner himself, as well as his relationships with God and neighbor. Absolution takes away sin, but it does not remedy all the disorders sin has caused.62 Raised up from sin, the sinner must still recover his full spiritual health by doing something more to make amends for the sin: he must "make satisfaction for" or "expiate" his sins. This satisfaction is also called "penance."


The institution fought tooth and nail from helping the victims of abuse, it was the media which finally got the institution to do something.
I agree with you 100% - Penance is a joke! The RCC catechism teaches that is is 'necessary' though, because 'man must expiate and make reparation for the punishment which is due for his sins', and the RCC teaches that is why Christ said: "Unless you repent you will all perish." Luke 13:5 :rolleyes:
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Well, confession is for absolution of mortal sins, not all sins. Penance is also not part of absolution, so you can be forgiven and not do your penance if you so choose. However, I think it makes sense of the way that God does things in the world, the way He worked with the people of Israel and the way He established His Church. God works through us and delights in our working together as a family to support and love one another.

It would be like me asking: "What are your thoughts on the Christian teaching that men need a book called the Bible for them to learn about God, what he wants and find salvation?"
So, if, as the Roman Catholic Church teaches, that penance is the sacrament instituted by Christ in which sinners are reconciled with God through the absolution of the priest, does that then mean that everyone else (billions of people) who do not confess their sins to a Roman Catholic priest and therefore are not reconciled with God through a Roman Catholic priest's absolution, are not forgiven of their sins and will perish in eternal damnation?
 

mica

Well-known member
I agree with you 100% - Penance is a joke! The RCC catechism teaches that is is 'necessary' though, because 'man must expiate and make reparation for the punishment which is due for his sins', and the RCC teaches that is why Christ said: "Unless you repent you will all perish." Luke 13:5 :rolleyes:
that's one of the MAJOR lies of the RCC. it is straight from hell.

if that is true then there is no need for Christ.

and THAT is the goal of the RCC. to deceive people into believing their need is for the RCC, not for Christ.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
that's one of the MAJOR lies of the RCC. it is straight from hell.

if that is true then there is no need for Christ.

and THAT is the goal of the RCC. to deceive people into believing their need is for the RCC, not for Christ.
Oh, so very, very true mica! You wrote:
and THAT is the goal of the RCC. to deceive people into believing their need is for the RCC, not for Christ.

Here is a classic example of how the RCC deceives people into believing their need for the RCC and not Christ:
According to the teachings of the RCC, to violate a law or a moral ruling of the Roman Catholic Church, aka Holy Mother Church, is to defy "natural law" and divine revelation. Such a violation empties the soul of all sanctifying grace, thereby requiring absolution by a Roman Catholic priest and satisfaction is due in the form of penance. Failure to acknowledge the guilt of such an offense and to undergo the prescribed punishment was to dwell in the state of mortal sin, a condition that resulted in eternal damnation. Even a minor transgression - a venial sin - unless expiated by a Roman Catholic priest and met with the proper satisfaction, meant years of suffering in an unbiblical place between heaven and hell which the Roman Catholic Church called purgatory. The exact duration of a sentence for each violation of ecclesiastical law was set forth in penitential books that had been developed in the 6th century.
 

mica

Well-known member
Oh, so very, very true mica! You wrote:
and THAT is the goal of the RCC. to deceive people into believing their need is for the RCC, not for Christ.

Here is a classic example of how the RCC deceives people into believing their need for the RCC and not Christ:
According to the teachings of the RCC, to violate a law or a moral ruling of the Roman Catholic Church, aka Holy Mother Church, is to defy "natural law" and divine revelation. Such a violation empties the soul of all sanctifying grace, thereby requiring absolution by a Roman Catholic priest and satisfaction is due in the form of penance. Failure to acknowledge the guilt of such an offense and to undergo the prescribed punishment was to dwell in the state of mortal sin, a condition that resulted in eternal damnation. Even a minor transgression - a venial sin - unless expiated by a Roman Catholic priest and met with the proper satisfaction, meant years of suffering in an unbiblical place between heaven and hell which the Roman Catholic Church called purgatory. The exact duration of a sentence for each violation of ecclesiastical law was set forth in penitential books that had been developed in the 6th century.
not following / breaking those rules made up by the RCC is not sin - not mortal or venial. That is a lie of the RCC. It is not a sin to miss a Mass - you'd be better missing it and reading scripture at home. eating meat on a Friday or HD of obligation is not a sin.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
So, do I hear you saying that the Roman Catholic sacrament of "penance" is what is necessary in order for a sinner to be forgiven and reconciled with God? Why can't a Roman Catholic expect to be forgiven by seeking God's forgiveness without verbalizing it to a Roman Catholic priest? What would happen if a non-Roman Catholic told their sins to an RC priest - would he/ she be absolved from their sins by that priest who heard their confession? Is a Roman Catholic priest able to forgive the sins of a non-Roman Catholic or not?
The sacrament is confession or reconciliation - penance is not a sacrament. The sacrament isn't necessary for venial sins to be forgiven just for mortal sins. Actually, non-Catholics can be forgiven through the sacrament too under certain conditions.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
So, if, as the Roman Catholic Church teaches, that penance is the sacrament instituted by Christ in which sinners are reconciled with God through the absolution of the priest, does that then mean that everyone else (billions of people) who do not confess their sins to a Roman Catholic priest and therefore are not reconciled with God through a Roman Catholic priest's absolution, are not forgiven of their sins and will perish in eternal damnation?
It doesn't mean that because such people are invincibly ignorant, that is, they don't know about the sacraments God has established to bring grace into their lives. It's the same with all the sacraments, e.g. if someone doesn't know they have to be baptised or can't be baptised. However, this puts people in a precarious position spiritually as it can lead to presumption and moving away from God's Church.
 

mica

Well-known member
It doesn't mean that because such people are invincibly ignorant, that is, they don't know about the sacraments God has established to bring grace into their lives. It's the same with all the sacraments, e.g. if someone doesn't know they have to be baptised or can't be baptised. However, this puts people in a precarious position spiritually as it can lead to presumption and moving away from God's Church.
none of the RCC sacraments save anyone.

those who believe that any of them do are already in a precarious position spiritually.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
none of the RCC sacraments save anyone.

those who believe that any of them do are already in a precarious position spiritually.
Why do you think that?

If someone believes that Jesus instituted baptism as a means of salvation, how does that result in them being in a precarious spiritual position?
 
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