Roman Catholic "Indulgences"

[A new day]

During the 1400's and early 1500's money for indulgences indeed exchanged hands. After an outcry, that came to a screeching halt. According to an article in the new york times, the rcc will accept charitable contributions, combined with other acts, will earn an individual an indulgence. There is a limit of one plenary indulgence per sinner per day.

 

[Nondenom40]

Where in Scripture does it say you have the authority to forgive yourself by recital of "I believe"?

This post exhibits a complete ignorance of what indulgences, the authority of the Church to dispense such indulgences and the effect of indulgences.

JoeT

Where in Scripture does it say you have the authority to forgive yourself by recital of "I believe"?

Who ever said we forgive ourselves? Believing is how one is saved. You've read the bible right? That book you disdain so much.

Acts 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

All you have to do is open it.

This post exhibits a complete ignorance of what indulgences, the authority of the Church to dispense such indulgences and the effect of indulgences.

The bible knows nothing of indulgences. Its a man made concept to control people.

 

[Nondenom40]

without evening knowing it , NCs use the concept of indulgence.

Nonsense.

 

[Theo1689]

I ask sincerely, is there any consequence to personal sin?

That depends on their status:

Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Having said that, we must also remember:

Rom. 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

 

[JoeT]

1. Your Masters are not the Church. They told you they were, didn't they?

My Lord is Jesus Christ through His Mystical Body. The Church did indeed tell me; how should I know unless someone teach me? [Cf. Acts 8: 31]

2. The Body of Christ never issued anything called "indulgences."

The Mystical Body of Christ does not say they should be sanctified in opinion, rather they should be "Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth" [Cf. John 17:17] and the Word is God, not Book [Cf John 1:1].

3. There is no such thing as an "indulgence."

Denial serves only the blind man who do not comprehend the light. [Cf. John 1:5]

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

The poster doesn't need to seek anything from the rcc. The person's faith is squarely in Jesus alone. The rcc has no power to cleanse anyone's heart of sin and guilt.

John 3:16 - 18
For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

No where in Scripture does it even hint in seeking indulgences. It says to seek Jesus and believe in Jesus.

God alone knows our needs, how is it you know what the poster's needs are?

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

The fact that the humongous St. Peter's Mega-Church is standing in Rome tells me that the RCC did sell indulgences and is very effective at it. .

Can you provide a price list? I can, but the list only consists of charity.

Although, the man who invented and built Rome through his salesmanship skills, Johann Tetzel, doesn't have a single statue or shrine in the city and that's surprising. I would think that the man would have been canonized as a saint and assigned the job of "Patron Saint for Timeshare Salesmen"? After all, what an indulgence, but time off from one's purgatorial sentence so the Catholic could enjoy more time in heaven?

Of course we know what the protesters of the time said, Tetzel was selling indulgences, simony. Nikolaus Paulus tells us the sales pitch used by Tetzel is different than the propaganda used at the time:

Tetzel's authentic teachings illuminate exactly the opposite of what was later professed to be the preaching of indulgences [by Protestants]. In the Holy Council to Constance [circa 1414], the Dominican has been decided anew. Those who want to earn [merit] indulgences must have repented according to the order of the holy church or presuming to do it according to the order of the holy church. Such things also bring along with all papal indulgence bulls and letters. Nobody deserves indulgence unless in true repentance Tetzel repeats the same thing several times in the Frankfurt indulgence theses and also in the sermon fragments that are generally attributed to the Dominican, repentance and confession are expressly called for which we must have for forgiveness of all his sins. [Dr. Nikolaus Paulus, Johann Tetzel, 1899. - note: the translation to English was from Google Translate]​

Sin produces two consequences for sin, spiritual and temporal. Indulgences do not 'forgive' sin, rather they reduce the temporal consequences of sin.

Catholics know that it was impossible to sell the forgiveness of sins that comes from God in absolution through the priest in the act of contrition. However, remaining is the punishment or satisfaction due sin, the temporal punishment. The sinner doesn’t get off scot-free simply by quietly retreating to his rooms and saying “I believe”. Nor, does the Catholic get off scot-free from the consequences of sin by saying the act of contrition

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins because of thy just punishments, but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love.​

​

What remains is the temporal effects, the painful scars, scars of sin. We conclude with a warning one is buying a pig in a pock when purchasing indulgences or the demonic rhetoric of protest when supporting such nonsense.


JoeT

 

[RayneBeau]

That's not true, the Church does not now or did it ever 'sell' indulgences. It's true, only the one true Church with Christ's authority can issue indulgences.

He does not know, and if he did know then he should confess and seek an indulgence because there are consequences, spiritually and earthly.

JoeT

The "rules" of the Roman Catholic church are often foolish and their "traditions" no longer make any sense. When this is the case, Roman Catholics are unable to effectually function spiritually, because they must follow senseless rules that are made up by the highly-paid men of the Roman Catholic Church. That alone should be just one of the times in which a Roman Catholic individual ought to re-consider the RCC rules and dictates, and the Church of Roman Catholicism's OWN behavior.

 

[Atemi]

1. Your Masters are not the Church. They told you they were, didn't they?

The Church did indeed tell me

Your Masters told you they are the Church?

LOL.

And you believed them?

Not even the Apostles called themselves the Church, so think of how arrogant your self declared Masters must be to think they are even greater than the Apostles.

2. The Body of Christ never issued anything called "indulgences."

The Mystical Body of Christ does not say they should be sanctified in opinion, rather they should be "Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth" [Cf. John 17:17] and the Word is God, not Book [Cf John 1:1].

God never issued any indulgences either.

3. There is no such thing as an "indulgence."

Denial serves only the blind man who do not comprehend the light. [Cf. John 1:5]

You cite the Apostle John, who also never taught about any indulgences and never issued them.

 

[RayneBeau]

I ask sincerely, is there any consequence to personal sin?

Why are you asking? Ask your Roman Catholic priest if there is any consequence to personal sin if you are truly sincere in asking and knowing the only answer that you will 'sincerely' believe.

 

[JoeT]

The "rules" of the Roman Catholic church are often foolish and their "traditions" no longer make any sense.

They make sense to me. The reason they make no sense to you is that you have abandoned truth for you own traditions. If we follow through with rationality, we could say God Himself no longer makes sense, as there i

When this is the case, Roman Catholics are unable to effectually function spiritually, because they must follow senseless rules that are made up by the highly-paid men of the Roman Catholic Church.

Maoest argument, rich men and all?

That alone should be just one of the times in which a Roman Catholic individual ought to re-consider the RCC rules and dictates, and the Church of Roman Catholicism's OWN behavior.

What a Catholic should be concerned with are pretenders in Christ leading one astray from the One True faith though secularist morals.

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

1. Your Masters are not the Church. They told you they were, didn't they?
2. The Body of Christ never issued anything called "indulgences."
3. There is no such thing as an "indulgence."

Your master teaches darkness itself, chaos, and protest, indulge.

JoeT

 

[Bonnie]

without evening knowing it , NCs use the concept of indulgences.

How so? 

 

[Bonnie]

Your master teaches darkness itself, chaos, and protest, indulge.

JoeT

Indulge? But it is YOUR church that teaches Indulgences...

That's not true, the Church does not now or did it ever 'sell' indulgences. It's true, only the one true Church with Christ's authority can issue indulgences.

"When a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from Purgatory springs."

Does that ring a bell?

From Rollins.edu, a Catholic school, I believe, so I cannot link to it, but here is what it says about St. Peter's Basilica in Rome:

New St. Peter’s Basilica is the second largest church in the world and considered by many to be the most beautiful. Built mainly during the sixteenth century, it took over a century to complete, and withstood corruption, wars, the Reformation, the Counter-Reformation, good popes and evil ones, and inched its way toward completion in 1626. The main funding for the early stages of building New St. Peter’s came from the SALE of indulgences.

So, you are wrong. Indulgences WERE sold in your church. Even today, Catholics must do something to earn them. Catholics can even earn them even by saying the Rosary.

Jesus gave no one the authority to make up an ungodly doctrine and practice like Indulgences. They are totally unbiblical, and a slap in Jesus' face. Your church should be ashamed of itself.

He does not know, and if he did know then he should confess and seek an indulgence because there are consequences, spiritually and earthly.

"But if we confess our sins, God, Who is faithful and just, will forgive our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness."
Does THAT ring a bell? Oh, I forgot--in Catholicism, "all" does not really mean all, but a lot--but NOT truly "all."

 

[Bonnie]

I ask sincerely, is there any consequence to personal sin?

Sure--from civil authorities. Steal, rape, murder, attacking someone, molesting children--these have consequences from civil authorities.

But Jesus' death and resurrection pay completely for our sins. We may have to suffer consequences from civil authorities for breaking the law, but not from God, if we confess our sins and ask God's forgiveness in Jesus' name.

Both our grandsons recently got speeding tickets. They paid their fines. But tell us, do they need an Indulgence to keep from being punished by God? Is that how it works?

 

[JoeT]

Indulge? But it is YOUR church that teaches Indulgences...


"When a coin in the coffer rings, a soul from Purgatory springs."


Does that ring a bell?

Sure, indulgences can be for the benefit of souls in purgatory. Alms-giving is a one of the ways a person get indulgences. There is a movie that said "every time a bell rings an angle earns his wings". ["Its a Wonderful Life," I think Jimmy Stuart played in it.

Jesus gave no one the authority to make up an ungodly doctrine and practice like Indulgences.

He gave it to the Church, not to those wondering aimless in the wilderness. [Matthew 18:18; John 17:17]

“The doctrine and practice of indulgences which have been in force for many centuries in the Catholic Church have a solid foundation in divine revelation” [Cf. Council of Trent, Session 25, Decree on Indulgences (DS [Denzinger-Schonmetzer] 1835); cf. Matt. 28:18.]​

They are totally unbiblical, and a slap in Jesus' face. Your church should be ashamed of itself.

Sometimes its a little difficult, keep looking you'll find both the Church.

"But if we confess our sins, God, Who is faithful and just, will forgive our sins and cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness."
Does THAT ring a bell? Oh, I forgot--in Catholicism, "all" does not teally mean all, but a lot--but NOT truly "all."

We are not talking about the forgiveness of sins. Rather we are talking about release of temporal punishment resulting from sin being extended to the penitent.

JoeT

 

[Bonnie]

And more, from Scholarship.Rollins.edu., on what helped fund St. Peter's Basilica:

Indulgences also PAID for some of the most exquisite art in the world. The project brought together some of the world’s greatest minds and talent, including Michelangelo, Bramante, Bernini, and Raphael.

So you are wrong, Joe. Your church DID sell indulgences and their sale helpd to build one of the largest churches in the world. What do you think helped spark the Reformation?

 

[balshan]

Your master teaches darkness itself, chaos, and protest, indulge.

JoeT

Your masters follow the founder of the RCC, the father of lies. They have learnt to teach a false gospel, harm the sheep, tell lies, condone sexual immorality among its leaders, chaos, condone corrupt leaders, indulge and soften the stance on important things like divorce (that is covered up now by nullify the marriage, God is not fooled), finding ways around sin and worst of all teaching another mediator and redeemer.

 

[Bonnie]

Sure, indulgences can be for the benefit of souls in purgatory. Alms-giving is a one of the ways a person get indulgences.

So, alms-giving is a "get out of purgatory" card, eh?

There is a movie that said "every time a bell rings an angle earns his wings". ["Its a Wonderful Life," I think Jimmy Stuart played in it.

This is hysterical! Using a fictional movie to support indulgences???

He gave it to the Church, not to those wondering aimless in the wilderness. [Matthew 18:18; John 17:17]

Jesus never gave Indulgences to anyone, nor did the Apostles. It is a totally unbiblical teaching and practice!

“The doctrine and practice of indulgences which have been in force for many centuries in the Catholic Church have a solid foundation in divine revelation” [Cf. Council of Trent, Session 25, Decree on Indulgences (DS [Denzinger-Schonmetzer] 1835); cf. Matt. 28:18.]​

Trent isn't the Bible or Scripture, and Matthew 28:18 has zero to do with Indulgences, and is about the Great Commission. Your church made up Indulgences. They are lies.

Sometimes its a little difficult, keep looking you'll find both the Church.

I don't need to look, I found Jesus Christ and His grace and forgiveness, not only for the guilt of my sins, but for the punishment for them.

We are not talking about the forgiveness of sins. Rather we are talking about release of temporal punishment resulting from sin being extended to the penitent.

Jesus forgives that, too. Why do you think He went to the cross?

 

[balshan]

And more, from Scholarship.Rollins.edu., on what helped fund St. Peter's Basilica:



So you are wrong, Romish. Your church DID sell indulgences and their sale helpd to build one of the largest churches in the world. What do you think helped spark the Reformation?

Oh they did sell indulgences that is historical knowledge. In some ways they still sell indulgences but not for money, it is more of a barter system. They exchange indulgences of prayers etc for a shorter time in purgatory.