Roman Catholicism: Full Blown Docetic Gnosticism

pilgrim

Well-known member
Baloney. Your church hasn't been the "pillar" of the truth for many centuries, after adding so many man-made doctrines to your church--Indulgences, the 4 Marian Dogmas, popery, celibate, unmarried clergy, salvation by grace through faith plus our works....and on and on....

Your church supports all of these--therefore, in no way, shape, or form is it the "pillar and foundation of the truth." It only supports itself.
The Catholic Church always has been and always will be the pillar and foundation of the truth since Jesus established it. No Protestant or Protestant Church ever will be. So all your claims fall short.
 

balshan

Well-known member
No other church is the pillar and foundation of the truth.
Well in that case there is not one church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth because you institution is not the pillar and foundation of the truth. That is a major false claim which not one RC has ever proven. Throughout the history of the RCC it has lied and whitewashed its evil actions. That is not the truth at all.

It has taught false doctrines, some even break the commandments. This is not the truth at all.

The apostolic succession is another false teaching which shows it is not the pillar and foundation of truth.

Not only that the RCC lies, it is a proven liar from the pope down. In the recent scandals they lied to the authorities,they lied about the victims, they lied to the laity about the victims. There is no way the pillar and foundation of the truth would ever lie.

The above are just examples of why that claim is false. It justifies these actions that prove that claim to be false by trying to divorce the evil leaders from the institution. What a joke. The justifications by misuse of scripture is just another lie.

The real church is not a building, it is not an institution, it is the people, if they are off then the institution is not the pillar and foundation of truth.
 

balshan

Well-known member
The Catholic Church always has been and always will be the pillar and foundation of the truth since Jesus established it. No Protestant or Protestant Church ever will be. So all your claims fall short.
The RCC has ever been, nor will it ever, be the pillar and foundation of truth, as Jesus would never touch it with a ten foot barge pole. It is so evil that it is an insult to Jesus to blame Him for its establishment. He never said that the real church would harm the sheep. He said to test, discern and judge the leaders.

Well your leaders have brought shame to His name. They have discredited the life of Jesus and His works by their evil fruit throughout the centuries. His apostles were clear false leaders are and were not to be associated with. Yet every Sunday RCs have done so because of their false belief about the communion. The lies that it can only happen through their evil leaders. The lies that it is the real Jesus in wafer form. As if Jesus would let a paedophile touch Him.

You can repeat these false claims as much as you like but no RC has proved them to be true. Not one. Jesus church MUST meet certain requirements, it must passes the scriptural tests, its leaders must meet the leadership requirements, it must look a certain way. None of these things are met by the RCC except it does pass the bad tree test.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
[[[
What kind of proof do you want that won't cancel your church out at the same time?
don't worry about the church I am a member of
Born into it from my Mother's womb
nursed from her breast, doddled on her knees

Gal.4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.

that ain't the RCC which Paul totally, unequivocal rejected
in any size, shape, form, or fashion

Hebrews 12:22
mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

now back to this

Buzzard said:

pilgrim;
its not up to these Protestants to prove the RCC is the whore of Babylon
the 'Queenie of the Chaldeans"

its up to you to prove the RCC is the Church Christ established

I have yet to see any RCC'er do so;
not even come close to providing that proof
want to give it a try ??????
====================================
Prove it, pilgrim;

you have made the claim;
now put up, step up to the challenge
if you can't; maybe you should rethink you position
 

Bonnie

Super Member
The Catholic Church always has been and always will be the pillar and foundation of the truth since Jesus established it. No Protestant or Protestant Church ever will be. So all your claims fall short.
This is strictly your opinion; and everything you write here is backed up by your opinion--right?

Sorry, but your church has not upheld the truth of God's word for many centuries. It is only interested in upholding itself.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
[[[

don't worry about the church I am a member of
Born into it from my Mother's womb
nursed from her breast, doddled on her knees

Gal.4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free,
which is the mother of us all.

that ain't the RCC which Paul totally, unequivocal rejected
in any size, shape, form, or fashion

Hebrews 12:22
mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God,
the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,
and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

now back to this

Buzzard said:

pilgrim;
its not up to these Protestants to prove the RCC is the whore of Babylon
the 'Queenie of the Chaldeans"

its up to you to prove the RCC is the Church Christ established

I have yet to see any RCC'er do so;
not even come close to providing that proof
want to give it a try ??????
====================================
Prove it, pilgrim;

you have made the claim;
now put up, step up to the challenge
if you can't; maybe you should rethink you position
There is no other church today that can trace its continuous existence back to apostolic times.
If you know of one that can, name it.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
There is no other church today that can trace its continuous existence back to apostolic times.
If you know of one that can, name it.
And I don't mean a little heretical sect in India with their songs and dances as "proof". I mean the worldwide Church that carried out the Great Commission and made disciples of all nations.
Name it!
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
[[
There is no other church today that can trace its continuous existence back to apostolic times.
If you know of one that can, name it.
Pilgrim;
we can trace the origins of the RCC all the way back to Gen. Ch.3
Yea hath God said;


Quote:
John Henry Newman


"The phenomenon, admitted on all hands,
is this:
That great portion of what is generally received as Christian truth is,
in its rudiments or in its separate parts,
to be found in heathen philosophies and religions.
For instance,
the doctrine of a Trinity is found both in the East and in the West;
so is the ceremony of washing; so is the rite of sacrifice.

The doctrine of the Divine Word is Platonic;
the doctrine of the Incarnation is Indian;
of a divine kingdom is Judaic;
of Angels and demons is Magian;
the connexion of sin with the body is Gnostic;
celibacy is known to Bonze and Talapoin;
a sacerdotal order is Egyptian;
the idea of a new birth is Chinese and Eleusinian;
belief in sacramental virtue is Pythagorean;

and honours to the dead are a polytheism.
Such is the general nature of the fact before us;

That is, we prefer to say,
and we think that Scripture bears us out in saying,
that from the beginning the Moral Governor of the world
has scattered the seeds of truth far and wide over its extent;
that these have variously taken root,
and grown as in the wilderness, wild plants indeed but living;
and hence that, as the inferior animals have tokens of an immaterial {381} principle in them,
yet have not souls, so the philosophies and religions of men have their life in certain true ideas,
though they are not directly divine.
What man is amid the brute creation,
such is the Church among the schools of the world;
and as Adam gave names to the animals about him,
so has the Church from the first looked round upon the earth,
noting and visiting the doctrines she found there.

She began in Chaldea,
and then sojourned among the Canannites,
and went down into Egypt, and thence passed into Arabia,
till she rested in her own land.
Next she encountered the merchants of Tyre,
and the wisdom of the East country,
and the luxury of Sheba.
Then she was carried away to Babylon,
and wandered to the schools of Greece.
And wherever she went, in trouble or in triumph, still she was a living spirit,
the mind and voice of the Most High;
sitting in the midst of the doctors,

both hearing them and asking them questions;'
claiming to herself what they said rightly,
correcting their errors, supplying their defects,
completing their beginnings,
expanding their surmises, and thus gradually
by means of them enlarging the range and
refining the sense of her own teaching.

So far then from her creed being of doubtful credit because it resembles foreign theologies,
we even hold that one special way in which Providence
has imparted divine knowledge to us has been by enabling her
to draw and collect it together out of the world,
and, in this sense, as in others,
to 'suck the milk of the Gentiles and to suck the breast of kings.'


John Henry Newman​

now back to you proving what you espouse
"The RCC is the Church Christ established"

if so; Paul did not get the message.
for he was sent to the RCC = Church of the Gentiles
to call people out of it;
leave Rome
and join / be grafted into the Native Olive
Romans ch. 11

how about some Proof of what you claim
 

balshan

Well-known member
[[

Pilgrim;
we can trace the origins of the RCC all the way back to Gen. Ch.3
Yea hath God said;

Quote:​
John Henry Newman​
"The phenomenon, admitted on all hands,​
is this:​
That great portion of what is generally received as Christian truth is,​
in its rudiments or in its separate parts,​
to be found in heathen philosophies and religions.​
For instance,​
the doctrine of a Trinity is found both in the East and in the West;​
so is the ceremony of washing; so is the rite of sacrifice.​
The doctrine of the Divine Word is Platonic;​
the doctrine of the Incarnation is Indian;​
of a divine kingdom is Judaic;​
of Angels and demons is Magian;​
the connexion of sin with the body is Gnostic;​
celibacy is known to Bonze and Talapoin;​
a sacerdotal order is Egyptian;​
the idea of a new birth is Chinese and Eleusinian;​
belief in sacramental virtue is Pythagorean;​
and honours to the dead are a polytheism.​
Such is the general nature of the fact before us;​
That is, we prefer to say,​
and we think that Scripture bears us out in saying,​
that from the beginning the Moral Governor of the world​
has scattered the seeds of truth far and wide over its extent;​
that these have variously taken root,​
and grown as in the wilderness, wild plants indeed but living;​
and hence that, as the inferior animals have tokens of an immaterial {381} principle in them,​
yet have not souls, so the philosophies and religions of men have their life in certain true ideas,​
though they are not directly divine.​
What man is amid the brute creation,​
such is the Church among the schools of the world;​
and as Adam gave names to the animals about him,​
so has the Church from the first looked round upon the earth,​
noting and visiting the doctrines she found there.​
She began in Chaldea,​
and then sojourned among the Canannites,​
and went down into Egypt, and thence passed into Arabia,​
till she rested in her own land.​
Next she encountered the merchants of Tyre,​
and the wisdom of the East country,​
and the luxury of Sheba.​
Then she was carried away to Babylon,​
and wandered to the schools of Greece.​
And wherever she went, in trouble or in triumph, still she was a living spirit,​
the mind and voice of the Most High;​
sitting in the midst of the doctors,​
both hearing them and asking them questions;'​
claiming to herself what they said rightly,​
correcting their errors, supplying their defects,​
completing their beginnings,​
expanding their surmises, and thus gradually​
by means of them enlarging the range and​
refining the sense of her own teaching.​
So far then from her creed being of doubtful credit because it resembles foreign theologies,​
we even hold that one special way in which Providence​
has imparted divine knowledge to us has been by enabling her​
to draw and collect it together out of the world,​
and, in this sense, as in others,​
to 'suck the milk of the Gentiles and to suck the breast of kings.'​
John Henry Newman​

now back to you proving what you espouse
"The RCC is the Church Christ established"

if so; Paul did not get the message.
for he was sent to the RCC = Church of the Gentiles
to call people out of it;
leave Rome
and join / be grafted into the Native Olive
Romans ch. 11

how about some Proof of what you claim
What a load of hogwash. You have no proof for you false claim. You institutions action prove it is not in scripture at all, other than we are warned against it.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
[[
And I don't mean a little heretical sect in India with their songs and dances as "proof". I mean the worldwide Church that carried out the Great Commission and made disciples of all nations.
Name it!
Why not as Newman says

"The phenomenon, admitted on all hands,
is this:
That great portion of what is generally received as Christian truth is,
in its rudiments or in its separate parts,
to be found in heathen philosophies and religions.
For instance,
the doctrine of a Trinity is found both in the East and in the West;
so is the ceremony of washing; so is the rite of sacrifice.

The doctrine of the Divine Word is Platonic;
the doctrine of the Incarnation is Indian;​

Now how about that ""Proof" that the RCC is the church Christ established

the rulers of the Church from early times were prepared, should the occasion arise, to adopt, to imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the populace, as well as the philosophy of the educated class. what they needed, if they did not use what they found; and that they were moreover possessed of the very archetypes, of which paganism attempted the shadows;​
as Newman says
She began in Chaldea,

Isaiah 47:1
Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon,
sit on the ground: there is no throne,
O daughter of the Chaldeans:
for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
how about some Proof of what you claim
There is no one other than THE Church that was personally founded by Jesus Himself, personally given the Commission to make disciples of all nations, actually filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, having true apostolic succession, spreading throughout the world and fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi 1:11:

"My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.
 

balshan

Well-known member
There is no one other than THE Church that was personally founded by Jesus Himself, personally given the Commission to make disciples of all nations, actually filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, having true apostolic succession, spreading throughout the world and fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi 1:11:

"My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.
Which is not your vile institution. Every real believer is to spread the good news.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Lk.1:1​
Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order​
a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,​
2 Even as they delivered them unto us,​
which from the beginning were eyewitnesses,​
and ministers of the word;​
3 It seemed good to me also,​
having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first,​
to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,​
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things,​
wherein thou hast been instructed.​

OK pilgrim;
you have made these two statements
pilgrim said:
There is no one other than THE Church that was personally founded by Jesus Himself, personally given the Commission to make disciples of all nations, actually filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, having true apostolic succession, spreading throughout the world and fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi 1:11:

"My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.
==========================================================

as Luke says
"
That thou mightest know the certainty of those things,
wherein thou hast been instructed"

where is your Proof;
that we might
"Know the know the certainty of those things
you espouse

as Luke says
"
to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things,
wherein thou hast been instructed"

so pilgrim
Where is it written That which you posted speaks of the RCC"
Where is it written that the RCC is the Church established by Christ
Where is it Written THE Church of the Romans was personally founded by Jesus Himself

fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi 1:11:

"My name will be great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be great among the nations,” says the LORD Almighty.

Where is it written that Malachi speaks of the RCC

as Luke says
to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things,
wherein thou hast been instructed"

Cowboy; or as the case maybe; Cowgirl up and show it to us

here is your opportunity to do as Peter says
Be always ready to give an answer
to disobey Peter is to reject Christ which sent him
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Lk.1:1​
Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order
a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 Even as they delivered them unto us,
which from the beginning were eyewitnesses,
and ministers of the word;
3 It seemed good to me also,
having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first,
to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things,
wherein thou hast been instructed.



OK pilgrim;
you have made these 5 statements

pilgrim said:
"There is no one other than THE Church that was personally founded by Jesus Himself,"
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

"personally given the Commission to make disciples of all nations,"
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

actually filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost,
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

having true apostolic succession,
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

spreading throughout the world and fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi 1:11:
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof Malachi speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

Pilgrim;
rise to the occasion and put forth your evidence
"that we " mightest know the certainty of those things you espouse""
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
Lk.1:1​
Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order
a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 Even as they delivered them unto us,
which from the beginning were eyewitnesses,
and ministers of the word;
3 It seemed good to me also,
having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first,
to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things,
wherein thou hast been instructed.



OK pilgrim;
you have made these 5 statements

pilgrim said:
"There is no one other than THE Church that was personally founded by Jesus Himself,"
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

"personally given the Commission to make disciples of all nations,"
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

actually filled with the Holy Spirit at Pentecost,
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

having true apostolic succession,
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof it speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

spreading throughout the world and fulfilling the prophecy of Malachi 1:11:
OK, so saith pilgrim
Now where is your Proof Malachi speaks of the RCC
that we " mightest know the certainty of those things"

Pilgrim;
rise to the occasion and put forth your evidence
"that we " mightest know the certainty of those things you espouse""
Easy. As I said earlier, no other church fits any of that. Process of elimination.
 
Top