A new day
Super Member
You believe in and trust institution and tradition, we non-rc's who have been posting here, believe in and trust Jesus exclusively. What experiment? You speak as if it is wrong to trust in Jesus.
Roman Catholics Believe in 'Plenary Indulgences,' but . . .
- Thread starter RayneBeau
- Start date
You believe in and trust institution and tradition, we non-rc's who have been posting here, believe in and trust Jesus exclusively. What experiment? You speak as if it is wrong to trust in Jesus.
This is the poster that claims if he gave up RCC he would become a buddhist. It is the RCC he follows not the Lord.
A new day
Super Member
Those whose lives and Christology line up with Scripture are Christian. Jesus is creator, is He not? Mormon's believe he is a man from the planet kolob? Does that sound like that came from Scripture? Where in Scripture does it say Jesus came from the planet kolob?
John 1:1-4
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being 4 in him was life,[a] and the life was the light of all people.
adventists teach that satan atoned for us instead of Jesus. Does that sound like Scripture? How bout scientology? Scientology teaches that mankind is an immortal being (called a Thetan) not originally from this planet. Does that sound like Scripture?
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, ‘Let us make humankind
Christians are people who not only believe in, but follow and trust Christ exclusively to save them. And you can't see the difference between a cult and a Christian?
Bonnie
Super Member
Hmmm, what would happen if a Catholic would tell his priest that...
Bonnie
Super Member
Then there was the poster on here years ago who said that if any Catholic doctrine were proven wrong, she would become an atheist...one of the sorriest and saddest things I have ever seen on this forum. That shows that the RCC was her God, not Jesus Christ.
It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall so to speak.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Round and round we go.
WHAT Christain sects from your view are true Christian sects and line up with the Bible?
This is the RCC forum and we could debate whether it is a Christian sect or a pagan sect.
A new day
Super Member
You go back and forth, one time your serious, then next time your playing around and posting nonsense on purpose. But then whine when we post truth. Do you see any of us, quoting jack chick tracts? NO, we quote directly from Scripture. Scripture, does not need a scholar to explain its meaning. You want people to think of your institution as being pristine, and without fault, because if it looks good, so do you.
Very early on the church was teaching error, which is why Jesus rebuked it. Below was spoken by Jesus, who is God Himself.
Revelation 2:4-5
Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
Revelation 2:15-16
Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Revelation 2:20-23
Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
Revelation 3:1
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
Revelation 3:17
You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
A new day
Super Member
Out of the frying pan, and into the fire. Sad, really sad
Bonnie
Super Member
I never wrote that. However, I have seen prayers to Mary, pleading to her for help and to save the pray-er, calling her the "only hope for sinners" and pray-ers entrusting her with their salvation.
Well, some in your church believe that Mary is co-Redemptrix--which means "female redeemer with the Redeemer." One of your popes pushed this teaching, didn't he?
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Yep wearing scapulars and following their requirements meant Mary was meant to lessen time in purgatory, that would mean she is saving you from the temporal consequences of your sins.
Does that mean that the RCC mary is more powerful than the RCC jesus, doing what he cannot do? Or that she goes against the will of their god with impunity? (Again implying that she is more powerful.) ?
Sorry, but Roman Catholicism worships a foreign god. One that has nothing to do with the God of the Bible, except for using Christian terms. Their words are the same, but the meanings are totally different.
--Rich
I have the impression, more so now since I have been on CARM that Mary is the controller and Jesus jumps when she says JUMP.
Well, let me put it into language you are probably more familiar with.
"Temporal punishment" is what I think you may know as "discipline" - as in 'God is a loving Father who disciplines His children when they sin.'
Incarceration is a very good example, since this is not relevant to any questions about entering heaven, but has to do with things on this earth, like crime and societal punishment (earthly repercussions of our sin).
OK so you commit a crime and are incarcerated. The incarceration itself is human justice. But since all is ultimately in God's hands, God is allowing you to go to jail as part of your discipline. The first few years are your discipline, because you need this punishment. But then let's say you truly change. At some point you no longer need this discipline. Our justice system periodically reviews you for just this possibility. A parole board. And what if they say you no longer need to spend time in jail for your own "correction"? Well, they let you go free. They reduce your time to time spent. But what of your debt to society (Catholic: debt to the moral order)? What about 'doing your time'? Musn't you be seen to pay the penalty for your crime or else people will get the message that "crime pays after all"? Ah, the parole board says that since you personally don't need the correction/discipline anymore...you are cleared from your personal obligation to pay it - which means you have been given an indulgence. An indulgence means someone else pays for it. The parole board says that there are plenty of other people in jail to show people that "crime doesn't pay." And there are plenty of good people doing good things to give people examples of how to live. So there is a 'treasure trove' of other examples to serve as positive role models or as cautionary tales to those who might be tempted to commit a crime. The parole board effectively draws from those in setting you free, forgiving you the rest of the sentence.
The Catholic Church would say the same - you have an indulgence and don't need the temporal punishment/discipline of incarceration because you have changed. So now you ask, what if the parole board gets it wrong and you have to stay in jail another year to your next hearing? Was the CC wrong to tell you that once your discipline was over, you would always necessarily be let free? Well, no. The CC doesn't teach that you'll always be freed. It teaches that you won't be receiving any more discipline/temporal punishment. You may need to stay in jail. Everything is ultimately in God's hands and in this case God wishes for you to stay in jail. But then...you are no longer suffering for your own sin, but you are bearing suffering that you did not merit. In this case, you are suffering so that others might know (by the moral order) that crime doesn't pay. Or perhaps like the movie The Shawshank Redemption God needs you there to help the incarcerated from the inside. What do we call it when you must suffer, not for any needed punishment/discipline for yourself, but for the sake of the benefit to others, and also for your own growth - we call it accepting our cross for us to carry.
Please do not pat the poster on the head, the poster is intelligent and his/her posts over the years have proved that. No need to be condescending at all.
Forgive me if I came across as condescending. That was certainly not my intent or attitude. I write as I would like to be written to. The poster was very accurate in seeing the implications of plenary indulgences, knowing that it would affect how we view incarceration. I just replaced 'temporal punishment' with the more familiar and biblical term 'discipline' and answered the question as honestly as I could.
I am sorry if I misunderstood your intentions but we are used that attitude from so many RC posters. We all understand the RC terms and how they are used by RCs on this thread, a lot of us are ex RCs. Thank for your apology it is much appreciated.
RayneBeau
Well-known member
When Christians speak of evangelism, they are referring to efforts to fulfill Christ's "Great Commission" of the "good news."
When Roman Catholic Church speaks of evangelism, it is always referring to the Vatican's efforts to fullfill the Roman Catholic Church's own "Great Commission'- iow, the Vatican's 'Great Commission" of spreading "Roman Catholicism."
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