Romans 1 disproves total depravity, inability

Slyzr

Well-known member
From your link :

Abasciano seems to assume the gospel (God’s word) itself cannot be considered a “supernatural work of the Holy Spirit,” which has the ability to sufficiently “penetrate the heart,” but the Bible seems to indicate otherwise:


This penetrating work into the “soul and spirit” sounds like the work of “prevenient grace” described by my Arminian brethren, yet the author of Hebrews simply refers to “the word of God” as accomplishing this work, not some extra working of grace that aids the otherwise incapacitated nature of fallen man. Do God’s gracious means really need more grace to work?

Yup ....

Grace to not work / not be .......

Not really anything but not being.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
He acted exactly the same, just for the other side... we can pull up old quotes to prove it, and show how Calvinists actually encouraged the exact same behavior when it was for Calvinism.
 

Christian

Well-known member
God is Truth; and he doesn't change lest we be destroyed. This is what's wrong with change. If 'WE' change, we change the Truth; and it is destroyed...
so therein lies the problem. who has the truth ? arminians belive they do and calvinists believe they do. Yes God is truth. Maybe as far as these two groups are concerned since they are believers its somewhere in the middle and neither group has all the truth.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
so therein lies the problem. who has the truth ? arminians belive they do and calvinists believe they do. Yes God is truth. Maybe as far as these two groups are concerned since they are believers its somewhere in the middle and neither group has all the truth.
God is Truth, and his Word is Truth; I have his Word, and so do you...

For instance, no one is Good; no, not one. You have this Truth...
 

Christian

Well-known member
God is Truth, and his Word is Truth; I have his Word, and so do you...

For instance, no one is Good; no, not one. You have this Truth...
But to be more specific the doctrines of grace- who has the truth arminians or calvinists or could it really be somewhere in the middle ?

or could there be another possibility- both groups are wrong ?

For example man is surely depraved but I don't think totally as in no ability- total inability. I think Jesus made that clear to the unregenerate in the gospels talking about their faith that made them well and healed them. Also children at a young age can obey their parents without the spirit in them. Train up a child in the ways of the Lord principle at work.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
But to be more specific the doctrines of grace- who has the truth arminians or calvinists or could it really be somewhere in the middle ?

or could there be another possibility- both groups are wrong ?

For example man is surely depraved but I don't think totally as in no ability- total inability. I think Jesus made that clear to the unregenerate in the gospels talking about their faith that made them well and healed them. Also children at a young age can obey their parents without the spirit in them. Train up a child in the ways of the Lord principle at work.
Well you know me, I am a notorious Middleman...
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Sure they can do soulishly good things, but they are not pure in the motives of them.

Lost people understand the Gospel by grace, not by their inherent wisdom and goodness.

Self-righteousness knocks at all our doors, my brothers, but we must master it!
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
But to be more specific the doctrines of grace- who has the truth arminians or calvinists or could it really be somewhere in the middle ?

or could there be another possibility- both groups are wrong ?

Calvinism is truth.
We know this for many reasons:

1) When Christians finally had the Bible and studied it, this is the doctrine the Bible taught;
2) Calvinists can (and do) defend their theology from Scripture;
3) Arminiains have to resort to
.... a) rationalization;
.... b) assumption;
.... c) personal attack;
.... d) appeal to silence;
.... e) appeal to "argumentum ad populum".

For example man is surely depraved but I don't think totally as in no ability- total inability.

You already made that clear before you left.

I think Jesus made that clear to the unregenerate in the gospels talking about their faith that made them well and healed them.

Where does it say they were "unregenerate"?
Thank you for proving my point. You ASSUME things to make your theology seem true.

Also children at a young age can obey their parents without the spirit in them. Train up a child in the ways of the Lord principle at work.

How does that deny total depravity?
Are they obeying for Godly reasons?
Or are they obeying to avoid getting punished?
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
No, he didn't.

The really sad thing is, I almost think you actually believe this.

And if I went to the work of digging up old posts, you'd probably still believe it.

Besides that my post would get deleted merely for showing up what C's have been doing, like a hundred times before.

But let's make a fantasy world were all the Arminians are terrible monsters persecuting the poor innocent Calvinists some more.
 

Christian

Well-known member
The really sad thing is, I almost think you actually believe this.

And if I went to the work of digging up old posts, you'd probably still believe it.

Besides that my post would get deleted merely for showing up what C's have been doing, like a hundred times before.

But let's make a fantasy world were all the Arminians are terrible monsters persecuting the poor innocent Calvinists some more.
All one has to do is look at the 3-5 oldest pages on this forum for proof .
 
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