Romans 1 disproves total depravity, inability

CrowCross said:
Total inability to do what?
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Total depravity is often confused for total inability. They are not the same thing. Calvin’s doctrine of total inability means that the sinner does not have to co-operate with God in order to be saved.
 
Theo1689 said:
You haven't supplied any, no.
Scripture teaches instead:

Rom. 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
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Isaiah 11:10 (KJV) And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles **seek**: and his rest shall be glorious.

Deuteronomy 4:29 (KJV) But if from thence thou shalt **seek** the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV) And ye shall **seek** me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently **seek** him.

Acts 17:27 (KJV) That they should **seek** the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

13:42 (KJV) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles **besought** that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
 
Chalcedon said:
Total depravity is often confused for total inability. They are not the same thing. Calvin’s doctrine of total inability means that the sinner does not have to co-operate with God in order to be saved.
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I don't think one dead in their sin and trespasses can cooperate. Now, if you were sick in your sins and trespasses then maybe you could cooperate.
 
Chalcedon said:
Total depravity is often confused for total inability. They are not the same thing. Calvin’s doctrine of total inability means that the sinner does not have to co-operate with God in order to be saved.
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Because he can't cooperate with Gid, acvording to scripture (Rom 8:6-8).
 
Kampioen said:
Seek and ye shall find. Apparently you don't believe that.
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Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Same book. Different statement. Tell me how you reconcile the two?
 
Dizerner said:
Romans 1 does not disprove the need for preceding grace.
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Romans 1 establishes a scenario wherein this world rejected God. The Gospel in Romans 1:16 did not profit those who heard it......

Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
 
Chalcedon said:
If man is totally depraved, cannot seek God, cannot think a right though about God, cannot know truth as calvinists falsely claim, then why did God have to say 3 times He had to give these unbelieving reprobates over ?

Also how can these reprobates suppress the truth since they are dead and incapable of knowing the truth ?

See the oxymorons with such a false systematic ?

Romans 1
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

hope this helps !!!
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Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity

It is a statement of leaving man to himself. Which would seem to establish total depravity.

You need to realize that in the first part of the letter to Rome, Paul is establishing the wholesale sinfulness of men. That is what Romans 1 is. We are the descendants of those who wholly rejected God.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
 
christ_undivided said:
Rom 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Same book. Different statement. Tell me how you reconcile the two?
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This doesn't deny that there were seekers, scripture says there were seekers, but just that there were some that never sought that were directly approached by the gospel and accepted it.
 
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Kampioen said:
This doesn't deny that there were seekers, but just that there were some that never sought that were directly approached by the gospel, referring particularly to the Gentiles as a whole.
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Did not Paul say that those seekers are gone out of the way?

Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Again. Romans 1 is an establishment of the total depravity of mankind. The influence of Adam and Eve in their descendants ended with their death. Adam lived to the 7 generation. Even to the time of Enoch. The very man who started it all.
 
christ_undivided said:
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity

It is a statement of leaving man to himself. Which would seem to establish total depravity.

You need to realize that in the first part of the letter to Rome, Paul is establishing the wholesale sinfulness of men. That is what Romans 1 is. We are the descendants of those who wholly rejected God.

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
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So the glory of god is man can never be?

How does that work out?
 
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