Romans 9:4 refers to God, BUT NOT to any specific Person.

Yahchristian

Well-known member
NO reference whatsoever to The Father in 9:5. It's all about Christ, God over ALL, blessed forever.
Romans 9:4 refers to God, BUT NOT to any specific Person.

Romans 9:4-5... Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

TRINITARIANS...

1) Does “God” in Romans 9:4 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

2) Does “God” in Romans 9:5 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

I say Yes and Yes.

IMO, if you answer Yes to one but No to the other, that would mean “God” in one verse is DISTINCT from “God” in the other verse.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Romans 9:4-5... Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

TRINITARIANS...

1) Does “God” in Romans 9:4 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

The phrase, "the Father" ("ο πατηρ") appears nowhere in Rom. 9:4.
That's simply a FACT.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
The phrase, "the Father" ("ο πατηρ") appears nowhere in Rom. 9:4.
That's simply a FACT.

I think you are answering No and No. Correct me if I am mistaken.

1) Does “God” in Romans 9:4 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

2) Does “God” in Romans 9:5 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

I say Yes and Yes.

Are there any other Trinitarians who are able and willing to answer the questions.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Romans 9:4-5... Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

TRINITARIANS...

1) Does “God” in Romans 9:4 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

2) Does “God” in Romans 9:5 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

I say Yes and Yes.

IMO, if you answer Yes to one but No to the other, that would mean “God” in one verse is DISTINCT from “God” in the other verse.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
1)Yes. God in 9:4 certainly includes The Father.
2)No. 9:5 refers to Christ ONLY.
Your conclusion is false. In 9:5 a distinct PERSON is referred to as God, but NOT in 9:4.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
1) Does “God” in Romans 9:4 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?

2) Does “God” in Romans 9:5 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?
1)Yes. God in 9:4 certainly includes The Father.
2)No. 9:5 refers to Christ ONLY.
Your conclusion is false. In 9:5 a distinct PERSON is referred to as God, but NOT in 9:4.

You say...
> “God” in 9:4 refers The Father (and maybe others).
> “God” in 9:5 refers to The Son.
> The Father is DISTINCT from The Son.
> The Father is NOT The Son.

Correct?

So that means...
> “God” in 9:4 is DISTINCT from ”God” in 9:5.
> “God” in 9:4 is NOT ”God” in 9:5.

Correct?

If not, why not?
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
You say...
> “God” in 9:4 refers The Father (and maybe others).
> “God” in 9:5 refers to The Son.
> The Father is DISTINCT from The Son.
> The Father is NOT The Son.

Correct?

So that means...
> “God” in 9:4 is DISTINCT from ”God” in 9:5.
> “God” in 9:4 is NOT ”God” in 9:5.

Correct?

If not, why not?
False. God in 9:4 makes NO mention of Persons.
God in 9:5 refers to The Son ONLY, who of course is God in 9:4.
Which means The Son is a distinct PERSON(NOT distinct God) from the other PERSONS who are God in 9:4.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Does “God” in Romans 9:4 have ANY reference whatsoever to The Father?
Yes. God in 9:4 certainly includes The Father.

You say...
“God” in 9:4 refers to The Father (and maybe others).
False. God in 9:4 makes NO mention of Persons.

So according to your TRINITARIAN view...

The word “God” in Romans 9:4 DOES have a “reference” to The Father but does NOT “refer” to The Father (and maybe others).

Correct?
 
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