Russell's Criticisms of Christianity & Jesus

5wize

Well-known member
you read

but that is not the same as understanding what He says
and hearing Him
Well, I keep asking you how to do that given I did not find the message you did. So, again, do you have some objective method you can share that leads me to your conclusions? You think your conclusions are correct, right? We all need to know this method.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
you have no idea how awful were the events of the fall and how very much He has done to get us out of this situation.
Oh, please.

Firstly, whatever the events of the fall were, they were awful because God chose them to be.

Secondly, the idea of God doing something to get us out of a situation he put is in is absurd.

Thirdly, he's omnipotent. He could have gotten us "out of this situation" more easily than I can snap my fingers.
 

5wize

Well-known member
i have no method.

it would be like trying to explain mountains to a sightless person who also could not climb one.

or explaining taking a walk in a forest to a whale. different realm.
O.K. Then there is nothing I need to know or do except to continue living as I am.
 

5wize

Well-known member
if you choose to accept this world
then yes i‘d have no more to offer
to the conversation…

it is a choice, even being a most tiny one now given the fallen situation
and our helplessness
I don't know what you mean by "accept" this world. We both navigate it for what it is. It just doesn't seem your beliefs about it matter either way. Do you live differently believing what you believe.... Do you forgo work, friendship, family, pleasure?
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
Which doesn't address any of what I said. Eating a fruit is no big deal - it is entirely God who made the consequences what they are.
God has always given us a choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


Adam was no exception.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
cosmological changes occurred
because of adams action

the consequence was to reality

not just moral
Quite correct.

Adam's sin threw all of God's creation ("creature") into a state of entropy.

The whole universe is suffering.

Romans 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.


Bondage of corruption = 2nd Law of Thermodynamics
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
would you punish your tiny child so severely for taking a fruit from a bowl when it’s not yet the time, without permission?
Of course not. I'm not the monster the biblical god is portrayed as.
everything He does Is commensurate to the events of the fall.
Nonsense. Adam and Eve ate at a fruit they weren't supposed to, and humanity is damned forever? That's ridiculous. The whole thing was a setup.
cosmological changes occurred
because of adams action
No, because of how God set it up. God knew Adam would eat the fruit; everything that happened was God's doing.
the consequence was to reality
Except that you can't demonstrate any consequence at all.
not just moral
Neither Adam nor Eve did anything morally wrong; they couldn't have, because before they ate the fruit they had no knowledge of good and evil.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
right… because this is a social forum, footnotes would take a long time and you still would reject it, plus there are 1000s of yards of hieroglyphic information where this is explained. and you expect a concise proof on a forum.
So once again we see zero evidence for your claims, and zero evidence that ancient texts support them.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
God has always given us a choice.

Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Adam was no exception.
Which, again, does not address anything I said.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
you don’t believe in Him yet you claim He set it up as you say.
I am discussing what the biblical narrative says.
I am replying that no, He is not a monster and did not do things as you state.
Oh? Did he not create the world? Did he not put the tree there? Did he not tell Adam and Eve not to eat of it? Did he not know that they would eat of it anyway? Who decided what would be the consequences of Adam and Eve eating the fruit?

All God. He did it all.
 
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