Russell's Criticisms of Christianity & Jesus

RCM

Active member
This doesn't address Euthyphro's dilemma at all. You might as well be stamping your foot and insisting "He just doesn't understand!". This doesn't amount to a rebuttal. Fourth is the category of Moral Arguments for Deity, which Russell attributes primarily to Kant and rebuts with Euthyphro's Dilemma, arguing that either God's moral dictates are arbitrary meaning God cannot be non-trivially 'good', or God is himself subject to morality and therefore not the source of it.

Euthyphro's dilemma forces an either or regarding the nature of God and neither one is correct and Russell is wrong again

The Bible states that no one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18)

God loves because He chooses to


RCM
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Euthyphro's dilemma forces an either or regarding the nature of God and neither one is correct and Russell is wrong again

The Bible states that no one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18)

God loves because He chooses to
How is Russell wrong? I don't see how you're addressing the dilemma.
 

RCM

Active member
He doesn't. That's Russell's point. The rational person sees such things and concludes that the world is lacking in justice. The religious wishful thinker sees this and assumes there must be justice somewhere else to make up for the lack we see.

God's word tells us there is justice and that there will be justice and why there is evil and suffering

Russell is irrational in his conclusion that evil and suffering are an argument against the goodness of the Biblical God

Rather, evil and suffering are evidence of the sinfulness of mankind


RCM
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
How is Russell wrong? I don't see how you're addressing the dilemma.
This, for one:
The first reason given is that Christ appeared to believe, quite wrongly, that his second coming was imminent and would occur within the lifetimes of those he addressed.

As far as I know, no Independent Fundamental Baptist teaches that.

I don't think even Catholics teach that.

Academia might, but Bible apologists wouldn't.

Even Paul said he was ready to die, and he didn't die wondering why Jesus hadn't returned yet.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
This, for one: "The first reason given is that Christ appeared to believe, quite wrongly, that his second coming was imminent and would occur within the lifetimes of those he addressed."

As far as I know, no Independent Fundamental Baptist teaches that.
He gave direct quotes from scripture. Address those.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
God's word tells us there is justice and that there will be justice and why there is evil and suffering

Russell is irrational in his conclusion that evil and suffering are an argument against the goodness of the Biblical God

Rather, evil and suffering are evidence of the sinfulness of mankind
Russell wasn't arguing that evil and suffering disproves God, so this response falls wide of the mark. His point was that injustice in this world isn't evidence for justice in the next.
 

RCM

Active member
Yet you don't show how, once again presenting nothing that amounts to a rebuttal. What fallacious assumption? You haven't addressed the quotes from scripture he gave in support of his point.
There were no scriptures quotes, the following is what you had posted that I responded to;

"The first reason given is that Christ appeared to believe, quite wrongly, that his second coming was imminent and would occur within the lifetimes of those he addressed."

And I responded, "Russell makes a fallacious assumption and reveals his complete ignorance"


Russell was so completely ignorant regarding Biblical prophecy, and a lot of people who are ignorant of Biblical prophecy make the same mistake

Let me ask you a couple questions, Do you know what a double fulfillment is in prophecy and can you give me an example? Do you know what the time markers are regarding the prophecy Jesus made and why it couldn't have been fulfilled during His time on earth? Do you know what Old Testament prophetic event Jesus' prophecy was referring to?



RCM
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
There were no scriptures quotes...
Not in my summary, but they're there in the essay. See Matt 10:23 & 16:28

And I responded, "Russell makes a fallacious assumption and reveals his complete ignorance"
And you still haven't identified the alleged fallacious assumption.

Let me ask you a couple questions...
Sure. After you answer mine (from post #379: "What fallacious assumption?").
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
He gave direct quotes from scripture. Address those.
I must have missed his direct quote.

Here's the entire paragraph in the OP:

Defects in Christ's Teaching
Russell observes that we cannot know that Christ as depicted in the Gospels ever really existed, but argues that if he did then he cannot be considered the best and wisest of all men. The first reason given is that Christ appeared to believe, quite wrongly, that his second coming was imminent and would occur within the lifetimes of those he addressed.

I don't see a direct quote in there.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I must have missed his direct quote.

Here's the entire paragraph in the OP:

Defects in Christ's Teaching
Russell observes that we cannot know that Christ as depicted in the Gospels ever really existed, but argues that if he did then he cannot be considered the best and wisest of all men. The first reason given is that Christ appeared to believe, quite wrongly, that his second coming was imminent and would occur within the lifetimes of those he addressed.

I don't see a direct quote in there.
The quotes are in the essay, not my summary. See my last post to RCM.
 

RCM

Active member
Which again does not address Russell's criticism.

You think Russell's criticism of Hell is valid, that Hell is a doctrine of cruelty?

Russell is like a little kid refusing to admit his guilt and hollering that it is not fair in regards to his just punishment

Let me show you what God thinks, "Job 40:8, "Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?"


RCM
 

RCM

Active member
Russell's point is that many things labelled as sin have nothing to do with immorality.

God created it all, He gets to make the rules

No different than you, meaning that which you have authority over, you get to make the rules

Sadly, Russell did not realize that he had no authority over his eternal destiny if he chose to reject Jesus and God


RCM
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
You think Russell's criticism of Hell is valid, that Hell is a doctrine of cruelty?
Sure. You've given me no reason to think otherwise.

Russell is like a little kid refusing to admit his guilt and hollering that it is not fair in regards to his just punishment

Let me show you what God thinks, "Job 40:8, "Will you really annul My judgment? Will you condemn Me that you may be justified?"
This doesn't address anything.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
The quotes are in the essay, not my summary. See my last post to RCM.
In Matthew 10, Jesus is sending His disciples out two by two to surrounding cities to go door knocking, with the expectation that He would meet up with them at a later point.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
God created it all, He gets to make the rules

No different than you, meaning that which you have authority over, you get to make the rules

Sadly, Russell did not realize that he had no authority over his eternal destiny if he chose to reject Jesus and God.
Might doesn't make right. You're just preaching here.
 

RCM

Active member
Christianity is a religion, and Russell's point is that all religions, but specifically Christianity, are founded on fear of death and fear of the unknown.

Sorry, your statement is false and ignorant in so many ways it is pitiful. I explained the differences!

God has revealed everything you need to know about your existence, your lost condition, and what you need to do to be reconciled to God

What more would you have God do than what He has already done, what more would you have God say than what He has already said?


RCM
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Sorry, your statement is false and ignorant in so many ways it is pitiful. I explained the differences!
Unsupported.

God has revealed everything you need to know about your existence, your lost condition, and what you need to do to be reconciled to God
What more would you have God do than what He has already done, what more would you have God say than what He has already said?
You're again just preaching without addressing the point.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
In Matthew 10, Jesus is sending His disciples out two by two to surrounding cities to go door knocking, with the expectation that He would meet up with them at a later point.
Hardly a convincing interpretation, especially in light of Matt 16:28.
 
Top