Where does the concept of eternal damnation in the flames of hell get woven into the Christian narrative?Scripturally speaking: death. Also scripturally speaking death is unconsciousness. Ecclesiastes 9:5
john
Where does the concept of eternal damnation in the flames of hell get woven into the Christian narrative?Scripturally speaking: death. Also scripturally speaking death is unconsciousness. Ecclesiastes 9:5
john
Not according to scripture.... and humanity is damned forever?
This is merely a belief, one not shared by all.God knew Adam would eat the fruit; everything that happened was God's doing.
God told them what was right for them: don't eat of the tree. In eating they did what they knew to be wrong.Neither Adam nor Eve did anything morally wrong; they couldn't have, because before they ate the fruit they had no knowledge of good and evil.
Incoherent - right from wrong was not a human concept at the time. Disobedience was just a free will action allowed in the God design.Not according to scripture.
This is merely a belief, one not shared by all.
God told them what was right for them: don't eat of the tree. In eating they did what they knew to be wrong.
john
The best theory is that Jesus thought himself the Messiah of the nation of Israel, the earthly king of the Jews in the Maccabean vein. The answer to the prophesies thay all knew... no coincidence that his life would be an attempt at emulation. Thought to be a son of God (by birth, baptism, or ascension - the bible differs) he would survive any crucifixion.There are so many things to think about in regards to what you ask, so I will just state some of them and not elaborate
The way that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit inspired the written word is that it is always relevant, so that when you read the scriptures the wording seems as though it was written just to you in the present time in which you live, the theology of the Bible is timeless in spite of the culture being thousands of years old. To some people they mistakenly assume the Bible is an antiquated book that is out of date, however, just the opposite is true, the Bible is God's revelation of absolute truth for all of humanity for all time
Jesus spoke in plain language in the gospels up to the point the Jewish leaders rejected Him and from there on He spoke in ambiguous language and in parables (ref. Mark 4:10-12)
I would argue that the Apostles were not confused after the resurrection, it was then they began to see everything more clearly (John 2:22) and the New Testament letters they penned under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit testify to this (John 14:26)
Also there is blindness to truth that is a result of sin (2 Corinthians 4:4), which results in many people being confused or thinking something implies a certain conclusion when there is another point of view
The coming return of the Lord Jesus has always be imminent in Biblical anticipation while at the same time there were indications of delay, (ref. Matthew 24:48; Matthew 25:19; Luke 12:45; Luke 20:9; 2 Peter 3:9)
Prophecy is primary for determining who is the source of truth and knowledge, as God states in Isaiah 41:21-24, "Present your case," the LORD says. "Bring forward your strong arguments," The King of Jacob says. Let them bring forth and declare to us what is going to take place; As for the former events, declare what they were, That we may consider them and know their outcome. Or announce to us what is coming; Declare the things that are going to come afterward, That we may know that you are gods; Indeed, do good or evil, that we may anxiously look about us and fear together. Behold, you are of no account, And your work amounts to nothing; He who chooses you is an abomination."
Yet, prophecy is very complicated and is misinterpreted and abused by many people. One rule of thumb is the law of non-contradiction, because God's revelation in the Bible presents itself as primary and authoratative therefore, if you hold any belief or opinion in regards to prophecy that is not consistent with the whole of Biblical prophecy, it must be recognized to be in error.
An example of prophecy in scripture being difficult is Daniel 11. Daniel 11 is so explicit up to verse 35 that the critics say Daniel had to be written late, yet from verse 36 on there is nothing in known history that fits right, so it must yet be future. This is the case with much of Jesus prophetic words in the Gospels, when is He addressing near events and when is He addressing end of the age events? That is why we study scripture, because it is like a puzzle and certain pieces have to be put in place before you can put others in.
Proverbs 25:2 states, it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but it is the glory of Kings to search out a matter
Deuteronomy 29:29 states, God keeps the secret things to himself
Colossians 2:2-3, "That their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."
RCM
As an introductory paragraph demonstrating that little has changed.Isn't that kind of obvious, though?
No I don't accept that, I am amazed at this response from you after some of the thought provoking posts you have made so far. The Biblical testimony refers to the end time, the resurrection of the dead and the life to come a good deal. Sure it is not clear when, but actually it says that as well.It is not even "clear" that there will be an "end time", as the Bible depicts it.
Yes.No I don't accept that, I am amazed at this response from you after some of the thought provoking posts you have made so far. The Biblical testimony refers to the end time, the resurrection of the dead and the life to come a good deal.
Ah I see. Yes ok, we dont, its faithYes.
I meant that we do not know that this will actually happen.
There are 2 parts to the eschatology. 1) The tribulation brought on by the Messiah of the Jews - a human king and liberator of the Maccabean vein, and 2) the kingdom brought on by the son of man. 2 different entities that were attempted to be converged into one Jesus over time as the gospels reflected the evolving thinking of this ancient prophesy across the first century.No I don't accept that, I am amazed at this response from you after some of the thought provoking posts you have made so far. The Biblical testimony refers to the end time, the resurrection of the dead and the life to come a good deal. Sure it is not clear when, but actually it says that as well.
Sorry but I DID.You didn't answer the question.
No Bob, you did not. Here's the question again:Sorry but I DID.
This doesn't resolve Euthyphro's Dilemma. All you did was deny both horns without showing that any other option remains.No, philosophy is in trouble when it attempts to formulate an argument in relation to God when philosophy is ignorant regarding Biblical truth
If you would have taken time to analyze the post, you would have seen that Euthyphro's dilemma does not represent Biblical truth
This is silly. Denying someone's existence is not the same as calling them a liar. To call someone a liar requires acknowledging their existence. You're not actually addressing his point, which was that real-world injustice doesn't rationally justify belief in post-world justice to redress the balance.When Russell or anyone else chooses to doubt or be skeptical of truth that God has declared, whether they know it or not, they are aligning themselves with satan who was the first to cast doubt and deny the truth of what God had said (Genesis 3; John 8:44)
Furthermore, when a person like Russell is a big enough skeptic that they propagate their doubt about what God has said through lectures or writings, they are calling God a liar
Unsupported.I'll say this much for Russell:
At least he was willing to make his ignorance of the Bible and Christianity public.
And in analyzing what he believes, he's really no different than any unbeliever today.
In short, he's just a poster child for ignorance.
You still haven't told me what you mean by the 'law of heredity'.A law (or rule or principle) is a statement that summarizes an observed regularity or pattern in nature, like the law of heredity
A scientific theory is a set of statements that, when taken together, attempt to explain a broad class of related phenomena that no one has observed in empirical reality. A theory is an attempt to provide an explanatory answer (why) that fits the evidence that so called knowledgeable experts accept as fact
The so called knowledgeable experts then propagate the theory of evolution as fact when the law of heredity, which is observable, stands in complete contradiction
And yet evolution is settled science, so in rejecting it you may well be putting yourself in the category of corrupt rather than true Christianity by impeding progress.Settled science? Don't make me laugh
Answers are easy. True answers take more effort.Science cannot even answer the questions of a child nor the most important questions in life
The Bible answers all of the above questions in correlation with reality and with no contradictions
Okay, but you still have Jesus putting forth a message that inspired 2,000yrs of disagreement and division, and was misleading even to his disciples that he was speaking to. I maintain that this is inconsistent with him being the best and wisest of men.There are so many things to think about in regards to what you ask, so I will just state some of them and not elaborate
The way that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit inspired the written word is that it is always relevant, so that when you read the scriptures the wording seems as though it was written just to you in the present time in which you live, the theology of the Bible is timeless in spite of the culture being thousands of years old. To some people they mistakenly assume the Bible is an antiquated book that is out of date, however, just the opposite is true, the Bible is God's revelation of absolute truth for all of humanity for all time
Jesus spoke in plain language in the gospels up to the point the Jewish leaders rejected Him and from there on He spoke in ambiguous language and in parables (ref. Mark 4:10-12)
I would argue that the Apostles were not confused after the resurrection, it was then they began to see everything more clearly (John 2:22) and the New Testament letters they penned under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit testify to this (John 14:26)
Also there is blindness to truth that is a result of sin (2 Corinthians 4:4), which results in many people being confused or thinking something implies a certain conclusion when there is another point of view
The coming return of the Lord Jesus has always be imminent in Biblical anticipation while at the same time there were indications of delay, (ref. Matthew 24:48; Matthew 25:19; Luke 12:45; Luke 20:9; 2 Peter 3:9)
Prophecy is primary for determining who is the source of truth and knowledge, as God states in Isaiah 41:21-24, "Present your case," the LORD says. "Bring forward your strong arguments," The King of Jacob says. Let them bring forth and declare to us what is going to take place; As for the former events, declare what they were, That we may consider them and know their outcome. Or announce to us what is coming; Declare the things that are going to come afterward, That we may know that you are gods; Indeed, do good or evil, that we may anxiously look about us and fear together. Behold, you are of no account, And your work amounts to nothing; He who chooses you is an abomination."
Yet, prophecy is very complicated and is misinterpreted and abused by many people. One rule of thumb is the law of non-contradiction, because God's revelation in the Bible presents itself as primary and authoratative therefore, if you hold any belief or opinion in regards to prophecy that is not consistent with the whole of Biblical prophecy, it must be recognized to be in error.
An example of prophecy in scripture being difficult is Daniel 11. Daniel 11 is so explicit up to verse 35 that the critics say Daniel had to be written late, yet from verse 36 on there is nothing in known history that fits right, so it must yet be future. This is the case with much of Jesus prophetic words in the Gospels, when is He addressing near events and when is He addressing end of the age events? That is why we study scripture, because it is like a puzzle and certain pieces have to be put in place before you can put others in.
Proverbs 25:2 states, it is the glory of God to conceal a matter, but it is the glory of Kings to search out a matter
Deuteronomy 29:29 states, God keeps the secret things to himself
Colossians 2:2-3, "That their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."
Unimportant. Whatever humanistic foolishness a person "Believes" is immediately ERASED/RESET, when they come face to face with God through the Holy Spirit in conviction of sin. And only AFTER being Born again of the Holy Spirit are they even CAPABLE of realistic belief set.No Bob, you did not. Here's the question again:
Do you think one can be a Christian either without believing in God, without believing in any afterlife, or without believing Jesus to have at least been the best and wisest of men?
You're still dodging the question. Obviously you're not able to actually address what Russell is saying, so your response is off-topic and irrelevant here.Unimportant. Whatever humanistic foolishness a person "Believes" is immediately ERASED/RESET, when they come face to face with God through the Holy Spirit in conviction of sin. And only AFTER being Born again of the Holy Spirit are they even CAPABLE of realistic belief set.
Well, he might look "in the know" to you and others; but as the saying goes:Unsupported.