Russell's Criticisms of Christianity & Jesus

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Firstly since he did not know good from evil, he did not have any concept that what he was doing was wrong.

Secondly since he didn't die, God was wrong there, too.

Adam died.

From Got Questions:

Adam was 930 years old when he died (Genesis 5:5), and his children and grandchildren shared similarly long life spans. Not counting Enoch, the ten patriarchs who were born before the Great Flood of Noah’s time lived an average of 900 years. Adam’s son Seth lived to be 912 years (Genesis 5:9). Lamech, Noah’s father, died the youngest at age 777 (Genesis 5:31); and Methuselah, Noah’s grandfather, lived the longest. He died at age 969 (Genesis 5:27). If Adam had lived a mere century longer, he would have been alive for the birth of Noah.

After the flood, the average human life span began to shrink drastically. The post-flood patriarchs from Noah’s son Shem (who died at 600) to Peleg (who died at 239) lived an average of 435 years. By Abraham’s time, humans were living less than 200 years. In the days of Moses, who was considered very old when he died at 120, the average person lived only to age 70 or 80: “The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty” (Psalm 90:10, ESV).

Why did Adam and the generations before the flood live so long?

Adam and Eve were created without sin. In this state of perfection, they were meant to live forever in paradise on earth. After the fall of man and the introduction of sin, death began to exert its destructive influence on all humankind (Romans 5:12). But with the degeneration process just in the beginning stages, there would be less illness and fewer genetic defects affecting the young race. It would have taken time for corruption and diseases to spread and increase throughout the earth. These factors alone could account for the prolonged antediluvian life spans.

While the Bible does not say, it makes sense that longevity at the outset of the race would allow humans the opportunity to accumulate knowledge and make other cultural advancements. At the same time, God had commanded Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth” (Genesis 1:28, ESV). Longevity seems to have been God’s way of kick-starting the growth of civilization, as it would have taken centuries of procreation to fill the earth with people living mere decades.

As sin continued to work through the generations, the accumulating effects of disease and death would likely have contributed to the shortening of the human life span. Concurrently, the fall of man and the resulting curse would have produced progressively worsening influences on the earth and every creature in it (Genesis 3:17–19).

Some scholars have suggested that dietary modifications and climate changes contributed to the rapid reduction in human years after the flood. One theory, based in Genesis 1:6–7, submits that before the flood there was no rain. Instead, the earth was covered by a water canopy that created greenhouse-type conditions and sheltered people from the harmful rays of the sun. A daily mist or vapor spread over the ground to water it. By limiting radiation in the atmosphere, this canopy would have slowed the process of aging and disease. After the catastrophic flood, which emptied the water canopy (Genesis 7:11), life on earth was less protected, and the degenerative process accelerated. While a reasonable theory, there is no concrete biblical evidence to support it.

Apart from the Bible, one historical document supports the idea that most people before the flood lived to be as old as or even older than Adam when he died. The Sumerian King List is a non-biblical text from southern Mesopotamia that lists the Sumerian kings and the length of their reigns before and after a great flood. Similar to the long life spans of the pre-flood patriarchs, the most ancient of the kings enjoyed extraordinarily long reigns.

God is never wrong. You just don't like it.
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
Adam died.

From Got Questions:

Adam was 930 years old when he died (Genesis 5:5), and his children and grandchildren shared similarly long life spans. Not counting Enoch, the ten patriarchs who were born before the Great Flood of Noah’s time lived an average of 900 years. Adam’s son Seth lived to be 912 years (Genesis 5:9). Lamech, Noah’s father, died the youngest at age 777 (Genesis 5:31); and Methuselah, Noah’s grandfather, lived the longest. He died at age 969 (Genesis 5:27). If Adam had lived a mere century longer, he would have been alive for the birth of Noah.

After the flood, the average human life span began to shrink drastically. The post-flood patriarchs from Noah’s son Shem (who died at 600) to Peleg (who died at 239) lived an average of 435 years. By Abraham’s time, humans were living less than 200 years. In the days of Moses, who was considered very old when he died at 120, the average person lived only to age 70 or 80: “The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty” (Psalm 90:10, ESV).

Why did Adam and the generations before the flood live so long?

Adam and Eve were created without sin. In this state of perfection, they were meant to live forever in paradise on earth. After the fall of man and the introduction of sin, death began to exert its destructive influence on all humankind (Romans 5:12). But with the degeneration process just in the beginning stages, there would be less illness and fewer genetic defects affecting the young race. It would have taken time for corruption and diseases to spread and increase throughout the earth. These factors alone could account for the prolonged antediluvian life spans.

While the Bible does not say, it makes sense that longevity at the outset of the race would allow humans the opportunity to accumulate knowledge and make other cultural advancements. At the same time, God had commanded Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth” (Genesis 1:28, ESV). Longevity seems to have been God’s way of kick-starting the growth of civilization, as it would have taken centuries of procreation to fill the earth with people living mere decades.

As sin continued to work through the generations, the accumulating effects of disease and death would likely have contributed to the shortening of the human life span. Concurrently, the fall of man and the resulting curse would have produced progressively worsening influences on the earth and every creature in it (Genesis 3:17–19).

Some scholars have suggested that dietary modifications and climate changes contributed to the rapid reduction in human years after the flood. One theory, based in Genesis 1:6–7, submits that before the flood there was no rain. Instead, the earth was covered by a water canopy that created greenhouse-type conditions and sheltered people from the harmful rays of the sun. A daily mist or vapor spread over the ground to water it. By limiting radiation in the atmosphere, this canopy would have slowed the process of aging and disease. After the catastrophic flood, which emptied the water canopy (Genesis 7:11), life on earth was less protected, and the degenerative process accelerated. While a reasonable theory, there is no concrete biblical evidence to support it.


Apart from the Bible, one historical document supports the idea that most people before the flood lived to be as old as or even older than Adam when he died. The Sumerian King List is a non-biblical text from southern Mesopotamia that lists the Sumerian kings and the length of their reigns before and after a great flood. Similar to the long life spans of the pre-flood patriarchs, the most ancient of the kings enjoyed extraordinarily long reigns.
Adam did not die on the day God said he would.
God is never wrong. You just don't like it.
God doesn't exist. You just don't like it.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Adam died.

From Got Questions:

Adam was 930 years old when he died (Genesis 5:5), and his children and grandchildren shared similarly long life spans. Not counting Enoch, the ten patriarchs who were born before the Great Flood of Noah’s time lived an average of 900 years. Adam’s son Seth lived to be 912 years (Genesis 5:9). Lamech, Noah’s father, died the youngest at age 777 (Genesis 5:31); and Methuselah, Noah’s grandfather, lived the longest. He died at age 969 (Genesis 5:27). If Adam had lived a mere century longer, he would have been alive for the birth of Noah.

After the flood, the average human life span began to shrink drastically. The post-flood patriarchs from Noah’s son Shem (who died at 600) to Peleg (who died at 239) lived an average of 435 years. By Abraham’s time, humans were living less than 200 years. In the days of Moses, who was considered very old when he died at 120, the average person lived only to age 70 or 80: “The years of our life are seventy, or even by reason of strength eighty” (Psalm 90:10, ESV).

Why did Adam and the generations before the flood live so long?

Adam and Eve were created without sin. In this state of perfection, they were meant to live forever in paradise on earth. After the fall of man and the introduction of sin, death began to exert its destructive influence on all humankind (Romans 5:12). But with the degeneration process just in the beginning stages, there would be less illness and fewer genetic defects affecting the young race. It would have taken time for corruption and diseases to spread and increase throughout the earth. These factors alone could account for the prolonged antediluvian life spans.

While the Bible does not say, it makes sense that longevity at the outset of the race would allow humans the opportunity to accumulate knowledge and make other cultural advancements. At the same time, God had commanded Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth” (Genesis 1:28, ESV). Longevity seems to have been God’s way of kick-starting the growth of civilization, as it would have taken centuries of procreation to fill the earth with people living mere decades.

As sin continued to work through the generations, the accumulating effects of disease and death would likely have contributed to the shortening of the human life span. Concurrently, the fall of man and the resulting curse would have produced progressively worsening influences on the earth and every creature in it (Genesis 3:17–19).

Some scholars have suggested that dietary modifications and climate changes contributed to the rapid reduction in human years after the flood. One theory, based in Genesis 1:6–7, submits that before the flood there was no rain. Instead, the earth was covered by a water canopy that created greenhouse-type conditions and sheltered people from the harmful rays of the sun. A daily mist or vapor spread over the ground to water it. By limiting radiation in the atmosphere, this canopy would have slowed the process of aging and disease. After the catastrophic flood, which emptied the water canopy (Genesis 7:11), life on earth was less protected, and the degenerative process accelerated. While a reasonable theory, there is no concrete biblical evidence to support it.


Apart from the Bible, one historical document supports the idea that most people before the flood lived to be as old as or even older than Adam when he died. The Sumerian King List is a non-biblical text from southern Mesopotamia that lists the Sumerian kings and the length of their reigns before and after a great flood. Similar to the long life spans of the pre-flood patriarchs, the most ancient of the kings enjoyed extraordinarily long reigns.

God is never wrong. You just don't like it.
This is nonsense. The bible only states that woman will bear children in pain and be subject to her husband. Adam would toil the earth for food. That's it. Nothing about death, disease, sin, or anything else. Read it again and show me where I'm wrong.

Gen 3:22 also proves that man was not created immortal or the tree of life would not be needed.

No, when God said they would surely die, He had to mean immediately or soon because they were not created immortal. God lied.
 
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Beloved Daughter

Super Member
This is nonsense. The bible only states that woman will bear children in pain and be subject to her husband. Adam would toil the earth for food. That's it. Nothing about death, disease, sin, or anything else. Read it again and show me where I'm wrong.

Gen 3:22 also proves that man was not created immortal or the tree of life would not be needed.

No, when God said they would surely die, He had to mean immediately or soon because they were not created immortal. God lied.

Another atheist who has not been able to exegete scripture properly. Adam died period.
He didn't die on the day God said he would; I made nothing up.

Yes, he did. Prior to sin men were immortal. Adam thought he was smarter than God and hence all men became mortal. Even you and I. You don't have an understanding of scripture which is why you make these mistakes. If you took the time to learn, I daresay you might be able to present a better objection. But you won't.

Romans 5:12

New American Standard Bible 1995

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Personally, I see you trying to argue with people who mostly know their Bibles, as a foolish act.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Another atheist who has not been able to exegete scripture properly. Adam died period.
I know. Sounds like you are having a problem trying to exegete my post.... try again:

The bible only states that woman will bear children in pain and be subject to her husband. Adam would toil the earth for food. That's it. Nothing about death, disease, sin, or anything else. Read it again and show me where I'm wrong.

Gen 3:22 also proves that man was not created immortal or the tree of life would not be needed.
Yes, he did. Prior to sin men were immortal. Adam thought he was smarter than God and hence all men became mortal. Even you and I. You don't have an understanding of scripture which is why you make these mistakes. If you took the time to learn, I daresay you might be able to present a better objection. But you won't.

Romans 5:12

New American Standard Bible 1995

12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—

Personally, I see you trying to argue with people who mostly know their Bibles, as a foolish act.
You do not know your bible. Most Christians do not.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I know. Sounds like you are having a problem trying to exegete my post.... try again:

The bible only states that woman will bear children in pain and be subject to her husband. Adam would toil the earth for food. That's it. Nothing about death, disease, sin, or anything else. Read it again and show me where I'm wrong.

Gen 3:22 also proves that man was not created immortal or the tree of life would not be needed.

You do not know your bible. Most Christians do not.

The Bible itself proves you to be completely wrong. I know both the OT and NT. You can't provide a single scripture to support your POV. But I did.

Read and learn.

 

5wize

Well-known member
The Bible itself proves you to be completely wrong. I know both the OT and NT. You can't provide a single scripture to support your POV.
Bull... Gen 3:16-22
But I did.

Read and learn.

I am familiar with Christian hermeneutics. It's another way of saying read what the text says and then make up what it means.

Again... another try:

The bible only states that woman will bear children in pain and be subject to her husband. Adam would toil the earth for food. That's it. Nothing about death, disease, sin, or anything else. Read it again and show me where I'm wrong.

Gen 3:22 also proves that man was not created immortal or the tree of life would not be needed.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
Adam would toil the earth for food. That's it. Nothing about death, disease, sin, or anything else.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Yeah... where did Paul come up with that nonsense? He was a Jew and knew the scriptures so he should have known better. More reason why Paul is not to be trusted. He can't even read his own people's scriptures without making stuff up that isn't there either.
 
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AV1611VET

Well-known member
Yeah... where did Paul come up with that nonsense?

In Arabia, by way of direct revelation from Jesus himself.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
 

5wize

Well-known member
In Arabia, by way of direct revelation from Jesus himself.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Bull. There is no account of what happened to Paul in Arabia at all, let alone an undocumented set of instructions from Jesus. Might as well be a Mormon then.

Besides, whatever fantasy being made up about Jesus telling Paul stuff that he never thought important enough to write down is contradicting Genesis. So pick one.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
Bull. There is no account of what happened to Paul in Arabia at all, let alone an undocumented set of instructions from Jesus.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; )
 

5wize

Well-known member
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, ( not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead; )
... said nothing of Paul tarrying with Jesus in Arabia.

Besides, whatever fantasy being made up about Jesus telling Paul stuff that he never thought important enough to write down is contradicting Genesis. So pick one.
 

AV1611VET

Well-known member
... said nothing of Paul tarrying with Jesus in Arabia.
Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.


Just read Galatians 1 and draw your own conclusion.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Bull... Gen 3:16-22

I am familiar with Christian hermeneutics. It's another way of saying read what the text says and then make up what it means.

Again... another try:

The bible only states that woman will bear children in pain and be subject to her husband. Adam would toil the earth for food. That's it. Nothing about death, disease, sin, or anything else. Read it again and show me where I'm wrong.

Gen 3:22 also proves that man was not created immortal or the tree of life would not be needed.

The scriptures support what I have said. Not only did I provide 2, AV1611VET provided scripture as well.

You are demonstrating that you YOU make-it-up as you go along.

You have also demonstrated that you don't know the first thing about biblical hermeneutics. Your statement regarding the Apostle Paul reveals your ignorance of proper interpretation.


Acts 9:17 17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the LORD-Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here-has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."


From Got Questions.

The events that happened on the road to Damascus relate not only to the apostle Paul, whose dramatic conversion occurred there, but they also provide a clear picture of the conversion of all people. While some have an extraordinarily dramatic conversion known as a “Damascus Road experience,” the conversion of all believers follows a similar pattern of Paul’s experience on the road to Damascus, described in Paul’s own words in Acts 9:1–9; Acts 22:6–11; and Acts 26:9–20.

Putting the three accounts together, the details of this amazing experience come together. Paul, who went by the name of Saul at that time, was on his way to Damascus with a letter from the high priest of the temple in Jerusalem giving him authority to arrest any who belonged to “the Way,” meaning those who followed Christ. So intent was he on “opposing the name of Jesus of Nazareth” (Acts 26:9) that in “raging fury,” he breathed “threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord.” Here was a man who truly hated Christ and all who were associated with Him.

Suddenly a bright light shone on Saul, causing his entire party to fall to the ground. Then Jesus spoke to Saul, asking him, “Why are you persecuting me?” in a voice understood only by him. Saul recognized that this was a deity of some sort because he called Him “Lord” and asked who He was. When Jesus identified Himself as the very One Saul had been persecuting, one can only imagine the terror that filled Saul’s heart. Saul was speechless, no doubt thinking to himself, “I’m a dead man.” The Acts 22 version of the story indicates that Saul’s response was to ask what Jesus wanted him to do. The Acts 9 and Acts 22 retellings of the story have Saul saying Jesus told him to rise and go to Damascus where he would be told what to do.

In the Acts 26 story, which is longer and more detailed, Saul describes Jesus’ commission of him as His messenger to the Gentiles (which must have amazed Saul, the ultimate Gentile-hating Pharisee), to turn many from darkness to the light and from the power of Satan to God. His message of forgiveness of sins and “a place among those who are sanctified by faith” must have also astonished Saul because the Jews were convinced they alone had the place of honor in God’s eyes.

There is no discrepancy or contradiction among these three accounts. Even though Saul received his commission from Jesus on the road, he still had to go into Damascus and be told what to do—meet with Ananias who laid hands on him, receive the Holy Spirit, be baptized, and be received by the disciples there (Acts 9:15–16, 19; 22:12–16). At Damascus, he also went for three days without eating or drinking, and then received his sight, which had been taken from him on the road.

The phrase “Damascus Road experience” is used to describe a conversion which is dramatic and startling. Many people receive Christ in a life-changing, instantaneous experience, although many others describe their conversion as more of a gradual understanding of the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. But both types of experiences have several things in common. First, salvation is of the Lord, by His will and according to His plan and purpose (Acts 22:14). As He does one way or another to each of us, Jesus made it clear to Saul that he had gone his own way for long enough. Now he was to become an instrument in the hands of the Master to do His will as He had foreordained it.

Second, the response of both Saul and all those who are redeemed by Christ is the same: “What do you want me to do?” Like Saul, we do not bargain, negotiate, question, or come halfway. The response of the redeemed is obedience. When God truly touches our hearts, our only response can be, “Lord, may your will be done and may you use me to do it.” Such was the experience of Saul on the Damascus Road.


Saul’s dramatic conversion on the road to Damascus was the beginning of an incredible journey. And while not all conversions are as startling as Saul’s, each of us is commissioned by Jesus to live in obedience to Him (John 14:15), love one another in His name (1 John 2:23), “know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,” (Philippians 3:10), and tell the world of the wonderful riches in Christ.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.


Just read Galatians 1 and draw your own conclusion.
I did. My conclusion is that if Paul, a Hellenistic educated Jew came out of Arabia without a chronicle of the most important interface to humanity or himself that will ever be, and instead we get only these scant letters of an itinerant cult leader (some of which are guaranteed forgeries) wandering the perimeter of the Levant trying to gain converts to a new dime-a-dozen cult by contradicting himself as well as Jesus just to play to the differing ears of each crowd , well, you draw your own conclusion.
 
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