Sabbath Day Salvation

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Gentiles Kept the Sabbath
Acts 13:42-45
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul.

At no point dies this prove anything you say in fact it’s actually boring to hear SDA gymnastics.
This is a description not a prescription
Where does in it say in scriptures, they made a change in day, from sabbath to first/sun day then ???

Of course, your proof need to carry with the Authority of GOD's Own Words.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ps 119:142 Thy righteousness [is] an everlasting righteousness, and thy law [is] the truth.
I don't quite know what to make of how you apply scripture. You quote a passage about the temple tax when I ask if you follow Jesus'example and keep all the feasts and festivals. And when I ask what on earth the tax has to do with you following Jesus' example and keep all the feasts and festivals, you quote a passage about paying Roman taxes. What is the point you are trying to make? Your explanation so far has been pretty murky.
You are entitled to express your opinion(s) here on CARM as discussion.

"What is the point you are trying to make?", See my other post to you.

We are still in the free will choice benefit period offer to Earth's occupants.

AV Ac 5:1-11 But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession, 2 And kept back [part] of the price, his wife also being privy [to it], and brought a certain part, and laid [it] at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land? 4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. 5 And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things. 6 And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried [him] out, and buried [him]. 7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in. 8 And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much. 9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband [are] at the door, and shall carry thee out. 10 Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying [her] forth, buried [her] by her husband. 11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

Here is an example of how liars will be judged.

AV Re 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

AV Mk 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Was Jesus' words Truth in perpetuity(G166) ???

AV Re 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What is your testimony about GOD's Authority(as Creator) in sabbath then, to match "the testimony of Jesus Christ" and "the commandments of God" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Of course you don't discern the judgment of God when it manifests.
Does this mean, you will stop judging me with "Yours in Christ, Michael", and let GOD do the judging then ???

You do know the full definition of blasphemy in ad hominem, Right ???

What doctrine are you discussing when you do "Yours in Christ, Michael" then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
It appears you have forgotten all the conversations we had in the past, many of which included another member who sought to be banished (and was successful). We know that Revelation 12:17 does not include the SDA church with the remnant, since they -and you- reject the commandments of God. Much earlier in this thread you asserted "salvation" by your works of the Sabbath, apart from Jesus Christ, so you don't testify of Him or His redemption either.
You are entitled to express your opinion, in the absence of supporting evidence, to justify your statement of opinion(s).

"Much earlier in this thread you asserted "salvation" by your works of the Sabbath, apart from Jesus Christ, so you don't testify of Him or His redemption either.", Neither did you quote me, and explain how it proves your point in discussion.

Communication is an Art, to say the least about communications between sentient beings.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
Where does in it say in scriptures, they made a change in day, from sabbath to first/sun day then ???

Of course, your proof need to carry with the Authority of GOD's Own Words.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Tell me where in scripture Sunday is the mark of the beast. Show me from scripture where the gentile was under Jewish law.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Yes I can
ie: "and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
and you have shown over and over and over again and again
it is not The SDA no Michael
Your rules of evidence do not match my rules of evidence.

AV Jer 17:9-10 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it? 10 I the LORD search the heart, [I} try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, [and] according to the fruit of his doings.

May GOD judge righteously between us, by GOD's Rules of Evidence.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
GOD's Free Will Choice to all sentient beings, gives the opportunity for both sides to make a case. We do realize, one side deals in lies, Right ???
Tell me where in scripture Sunday is the mark of the beast. Show me from scripture where the gentile was under Jewish law.
AV 2Pt 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

I get it, you don't believe the source of that prophecy. Does that mean, GOD's prophecy has failed before fulfillment ???

"where in scripture Sunday is the mark of the beast", Does GOD get to define scriptures or do men ???

"Show me from scripture where the gentile was under Jewish law.", Will you be surprised, when GOD reveals that GOD's Truth was repressed by men ???

AV Dt 6:5-6 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
AV Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

So this is a Jewish law then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Victor

Active member
Does this mean, you will stop judging me with "Yours in Christ, Michael", and let GOD do the judging then ???

You do know the full definition of blasphemy in ad hominem, Right ???

What doctrine are you discussing when you do "Yours in Christ, Michael" then ???
I must say that your posts are somewhere between entertaining and constructed to offend others, with the end result that you drive the questioning participants away from the SDA church. But while you're offended easily, I don't think you perceive that you don't like it when others treat you in the manner you treat others.

We have no choice but to accept the content of your posts as representative of your beliefs. It is the content you post that convinces others that you aren't 'in Christ'. Meanwhile, you wasted another post to express another nauseating episode of hurt feelings instead of writing anything to support your ideas relevant to the thread.

To wit:
You are entitled to express your opinion, in the absence of supporting evidence, to justify your statement of opinion(s).

"Much earlier in this thread you asserted "salvation" by your works of the Sabbath, apart from Jesus Christ, so you don't testify of Him or His redemption either.", Neither did you quote me, and explain how it proves your point in discussion.

Communication is an Art, to say the least about communications between sentient beings.
Either you aren't cognizant of what you've posted in this thread, or you're employing selective memory loss. In recent history, I pointed out how the SDA church's hypothesis of the Sanctuary Doctrine requires its members to violate the commandment Jesus gave to us according to Matthew 24:26, forcing those compliant with the commandments of God to reject the notion of Jesus entering the "inner apartment" outright. The SDA Sanctuary Doctrine is dead on arrival from its very inception over 160 years ago. Regarding the doctrine's source, it is another proof that Ellen White wasn't inspired by God.

You posted salvation via the Sabbath. There hasn't been anything from you regarding salvation by Jesus Christ, by His Blood atonement and resurrection, nor by His Name. Of course others aren't able to accept your fallacious signature claiming to be "in Christ".

It is very unbecoming when you feign selective memory loss to conveniently forget what you've posted in the past. Conversations responding to the pablum you write in your posts can't be dismissed as "your opinion". That is, unless you want others to regard your contributions as mere opinion and ignore them as unworthy of attention.
 

Victor

Active member
Your rules of evidence do not match my rules of evidence.
Have you considered others relying on the content of your posts as their evidence of what you believe?
That your posts don't match your "rules of evidence" tell me a lot - you're here for entertainment value only as a troll. It gets boring after a while.
 

Victor

Active member
Tell me where in scripture Sunday is the mark of the beast. Show me from scripture where the gentile was under Jewish law.
AV 2Pt 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.

I get it, you don't believe the source of that prophecy. Does that mean, GOD's prophecy has failed before fulfillment ???

"where in scripture Sunday is the mark of the beast", Does GOD get to define scriptures or do men ???

"Show me from scripture where the gentile was under Jewish law.", Will you be surprised, when GOD reveals that GOD's Truth was repressed by men ???

AV Dt 6:5-6 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
AV Mt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

So this is a Jewish law then ???
This is another diversion.
The only reasonable conclusion that comes from SDAchristian's post is that he has nothing to support his whacko notion of Sunday being anything of interest. Instead he wastes his time questioning Scripture when he should employ his attention toward the source if this nonsense: EGW. Accepting the uninspired pathological liar non-prophet as God is demeaning and a form of idolatry.
 

Victor

Active member
Where does in it say in scriptures, they made a change in day, from sabbath to first/sun day then ???
This is a good question - the onus is on you to demonstrate that this theory of yours has ever happened. Others have provided evidence that outside of some Catholic opinions that probably divert from their own catechism, the notion of Sunday sabbatarianism is foreign to the Christian church. That includes the posts I've written in the past.
 

Icyspark

Active member
Must remember that Acts recorded the historical transisition from old to new Covenant, as now under the NC, 9 of the OT Commandments were brought back over to the Church, but the Sabbath never was!


Hi YeshuaFan,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I have a question. Have you ever attempted to verify this premise? I'm just asking cuz I've heard it a number of times and I'm aware that it's not true. One other commandment from the Ten Commandment covenant is not what you call "brought back over to the Church" in the new covenant. Do you think it's ok to take the Lord's name in vain now?

But that's not the topic of this thread. We're discussing whether one's salvation can be impacted by transgression of one of the Ten Commandment covenant. I showed that Jesus indicated that it's better to gouge out one's eye than to commit adultery by the act of lusting after a woman rather than for one's whole body to be thrown into hell (Translation: loss of salvation). Do you accept the words of Jesus? If so, then if you can lose your salvation for the sin of adultery, then is it not logical to conclude that one can lose their salvation for transgression of any of the other commandments written in that set of Ten? Including the Sabbath.

I pray this helps.
 

Icyspark

Active member
Jesus adminiostered under the law and Old Covenant, when the NC was ushwered in, the sabbath was no longer given nor binding in the NC Church!


Hi YeshuaFan,

Who says the Sabbath was no longer binding in the NC church? Jesus kept the Sabbath and we're admonished to follow His example. Paul kept the Sabbath and he admonishes us to follow his example. The example of the Gentiles was to observe the Sabbath and none of the apostles corrected them and told them that we no longer remember the Sabbath and that now we observe Sunday in honor of the resurrection. Hmm. Have you ever pondered how willing Sunday keepers are to embrace something totally absent in the Scriptures? No where in the Bible is there any hint that Sunday is to replace the Sabbath as a day of assembly or rest or worship. In the NT Sunday continues to be designated "the first day." The first day in relation to what? :unsure: The seventh day, which maintains its venerated title, Sabbath!

Attempting to attach any spiritual significance to Sunday is the same as trying to find a biblical rationale for honoring Jesus's birthday. Jesus never asked for that and He never gave any indication that His blessed and holy day of rest which He said was "made for human beings" was to come to an end. In order for the Sabbath to be annulled we'd have to find the annulment in the words of Jesus before He died because nothing can be added to His will/testament once He died. Can you supply that text reference? No? Then you are adding something to Jesus's testament which He didn't. On what basis are you tinkering with the Lord's will/testament?

I pray this helps.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Where does in it say in scriptures, they made a change in day, from sabbath to first/sun day then ???
This is a good question - the onus is on you to demonstrate that this theory of yours has ever happened.
AV Eph 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

We need to agree what the scope of scriptures are, in GOD's Point Of View, and not man's point of view(Historically Edited Version) !!!

You have the Free Will Choice from GOD to choose, what you want to believe. Until GOD reveals the fullness of Omniscience to us. BTW, Coming soon !!!
Where does in it say in scriptures, they made a change in day, from sabbath to first/sun day then ???
..., the notion of Sunday sabbatarianism is foreign to the Christian church.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatarianism said:
So says you, in your own opinion, apart from evidence that can be Googled.

You are out of sync with CARM's understanding: https://forums.carm.org/#churches-orthodox-heterodox.33

Do you care, that you are critiquing CARM's stated position here ???
Where does in it say in scriptures, they made a change in day, from sabbath to first/sun day then ???
That includes the posts I've written in the past.
We do not agree. But will that disagreement end in dying(or killing) for a personal belief ???

I understand you do not believe this. But when it becomes Truth before your eyes and ears, You must choose a side to be on !!!

AV Hb 10:29-31 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

GOD will have "Vengeance" or "judge his people" without any help from man.

I warn people of this future reality. Others deny it. Still others, do not care in either outcome.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

JonHawk

Active member
Which things are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Col 2:17
Hi YeshuaFan,

Let's please stay on topic.

If you're really interested in the continuity of the Sabbath into the New Testament you can check out my thread titled, "Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian (parts 5-10)."

God bless!
As the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain;
So it shall come to pass that from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. Isaiah 66:22-24

And Paul reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 testifying that the Messiah had to suffer and was the firstborn from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” Acts 17:2-3

I was in the Spirit [in communion with, empowered by the Holy Spirit to receive the revelation of Jesus Christ] on the Lord’s Day; Rev 1
 
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Buzzard

Well-known member
''

AV Dt 6:5-6 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Yours in Christ, Michael
Once again Yours in Christ, Michael puts keyboard in motion before engauging brain;
and post;
Deut.5:1​
And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them,​
Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day,​
that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.​
2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.​
3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers,​
but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.​

Michael;
Deut. ch 5 deals with the Sons of Israel
not even the Fathers that came before
so deal with it
you, Michael are not of the 12 Tribes
you are not even from the seed of Abraham;
you are a Gentile, not a jew
now accept it and live with it
---or suffer the consequences of this -----
the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,​
and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.​

why Michael; do you cling too and espouse the words of Balaam ????
But I have a few things against thee,
because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam,
who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel,
to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication​
.​
 
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Buzzard

Well-known member
Does this mean, you will stop judging me with "Yours in Christ, Michael", and let GOD do the judging then ???

You do know the full definition of blasphemy in ad hominem, Right ???

What doctrine are you discussing when you do "Yours in Christ, Michael" then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Pauls;
2Cor.13:5​
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith;
prove your own selves.
Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you,
except ye be reprobates?​

Oh; my mistake; Paul wrote that to the Bride
2Cor.11:1​
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy:
for I have espoused you to one husband,
that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
that would not be a bunch of Wanna-be-Jews SDA Elders

now this; he wrote of men of your sort
Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God;
but in works they deny him,
being abominable, and disobedient,
and unto every good work reprobate
.
 
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Victor

Active member
AV Eph 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Quoting a verse explaining the gifts of God given to the church to attain unity...
Doesn't harmonize with your goal to divide and destroy that unity.
We need to agree what the scope of scriptures are, in GOD's Point Of View, and not man's point of view(Historically Edited Version) !!!

You have the Free Will Choice from GOD to choose, what you want to believe. Until GOD reveals the fullness of Omniscience to us. BTW, Coming soon !!!
No, we don't. You bear the onus to defend your beliefs, and you haven't done that.
So says you, in your own opinion, apart from evidence that can be Googled.

You are out of sync with CARM's understanding: https://forums.carm.org/#churches-orthodox-heterodox.33

Do you care, that you are critiquing CARM's stated position here ???
Did you read this excerpt from your own reference on Wiki?

Non-Sabbatarianism is the view opposing all Sabbatarianism, declaring Christians to be free of mandates to follow such specific observances. It upholds the principle in Christian church doctrine that the church is not bound by such law or code, but is free to set in place and time such observances as uphold Sabbath principles according to its doctrine: to establish a day of rest, or not, and to establish a day of worship, or not, whether on Saturday or on Sunday or on some other day. It includes some Protestant denominations.​

This is the view that I showed you from the Augsburg Confession, published in 1530. Divergent groups followed later, according to your own source, and constructed their own view of sabbatarianism. This existed in the time the Augsburg Confession was published, and it is acknowledged in Article 28:

For those who judge that by the authority of the Church the observance of the Lord’s Day instead of the Sabbath-day was ordained as a thing necessary, do greatly err. Scripture has abrogated the Sabbath-day; for it teaches that, since the Gospel has been revealed, all the ceremonies of Moses can be omitted. And yet, because it was necessary to appoint a certain day, that the people might know when they ought to come together, it appears that the Church designated the Lord’s Day for this purpose; and this day seems to have been chosen all the more for this additional reason, that men might have an example of Christian liberty, and might know that the keeping neither of the Sabbath nor of any other day is necessary.​
There are monstrous disputations concerning the changing of the law, the ceremonies of the new law, the changing of the Sabbath-day, which all have sprung from the false belief that there must needs be in the Church a service like to the Levitical, and that Christ had given commission to the Apostles and bishops to devise new ceremonies as necessary to salvation. These errors crept into the Church when the righteousness of faith was not taught clearly enough.​

Trent rejected many of these tenets that are borne in the advent of the Reformation. From these tenets the notion of sabbatarianism is rejected by the church from a purely biblical basis. Employing the fallacy of argumentum ad populum from sources after Augsburg isn't sufficient to overturn this historical fact.
We do not agree.
That doesn't help your case.
But will that disagreement end in dying(or killing) for a personal belief ???
Resorting to threats of violence doesn't help your case, either.
I understand you do not believe this.
That's because you can't support this nonsense.
But when it becomes Truth before your eyes and ears, You must choose a side to be on !!!
The "when" is now, as God spoke through David, saying

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

AV Hb 10:29-31 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Here you quote a passage that promises harsh judgment on those who have rejected the new covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Which is what I observed you to be guilty of in the previous post.
Are you suffering from selective memory loss again, or is it your intent to invite the judgment of God on yourself?
None of this is helping your case.
GOD will have "Vengeance" or "judge his people" without any help from man.
This isn't consistent with the quote you provided. You still haven't defended your charge of the alleged redefined mark of the beast or that Gentiles are under the Mosaic covenant.
I warn people of this future reality. Others deny it. Still others, do not care in either outcome.
No support, just utter narcissistic delusion. The reality is that you can repent of your sins and come to Christ,
Or...
Yours in Christ, Michael
...pretend you're something you're not. Coming to Christ will mandate the rejection of SDA Fundamental Belief #24, which in turn will force the rejection of SDA Fundamental Belief #18 - and recognize the source of the fantasy you presently prefer over the Bible.

I find it prudent to point out that you still can't support your own theories fallacies - there I fixed that.
Selective memory loss is a wonderful way to forget about your failure on this thread. You don't even know what you wrote anymore.
 
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