Sabbath Day Salvation

Victor

Active member
No, it's not the translation that's the problem, it's the modern slavish idolization by KJVO-ists of one 400+ year old translation, with the denigration of ALL other translations.
Adventism has its "foundation and pillar of the Advent faith" dependent on a mistranslation in one verse in the 1769 AV (aka King James).
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Review what I wrote:
You're the one bearing the burden to show salvation dependent on a day!
Time to fish or cut bait.
AV Re 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

If I do not meet your rules of evidence, Is this where, prophets and saints died for GOD's message in the OT, and in the NT ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Re 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Adventism has its "foundation and pillar of the Advent faith" dependent on a mistranslation in one verse in the 1769 AV (aka King James).
Please post the verse, as evidence ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Victor

Active member
AV Re 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

If I do not meet your rules of evidence, Is this where, prophets and saints died for GOD's message in the OT, and in the NT ???
There is no "if" - you haven't satisfied anyone's "rules of evidence", and have diverted from God's message of redemption.

It is quite apparent that you have nothing to support your contention of salvation based on a day. Nothing.
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Re 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

If I do not meet your rules of evidence, Is this where, prophets and saints died for GOD's message in the OT, and in the NT ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Still no proof then just you putting assumptions into verses an claiming everyone is too stupid or do not have the correct “aka EGW”; to interpret the verse.
 

Victor

Active member
Prologue:
AV Re 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


Please post the verse, as evidence ???
Verse? There is no verse purporting this nonsense in the Bible. Search your false prophetess for "foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith" for yourself.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Do Seventh Day Adventists actually believe that someday their salvation will depend on what day they go to church?", Short answer is Yes. That also means that Jews will also be saved by a day without Jesus.
Is there salvation in Jesus or a day?
During the time of GOD's Theocracy, GOD judged a man, for picking up sticks with death.

Has GOD changed Their Mind about judging sabbath during a theocracy of men ???

AV 1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

"Is there salvation in Jesus or a day?", Ask the Holy Spirit, and not the wrong spirit, for the righteous answer.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Adventism has its "foundation and pillar of the Advent faith" dependent on a mistranslation in one verse in the 1769 AV (aka King James).
{Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}[/COLOR]
Okay, you have no evidence. So should I assume that there is a reason to the dodge ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
During the time of GOD's Theocracy, GOD judged a man, for picking up sticks with death.

Has GOD changed Their Mind about judging sabbath during a theocracy of men ???

AV 1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

"Is there salvation in Jesus or a day?", Ask the Holy Spirit, and not the wrong spirit, for the righteous answer.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Well you need the Holy Spirit if YOU cannot answer a very simple question.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Still no proof then just you putting assumptions into verses an claiming everyone is too stupid or do not have the correct “aka EGW”; to interpret the verse.
AV Mk 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

That depend which group you put Jesus into.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Formersda

Active member
During the time of GOD's Theocracy, GOD judged a man, for picking up sticks with death.

Has GOD changed Their Mind about judging sabbath during a theocracy of men ???

AV 1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

"Is there salvation in Jesus or a day?", Ask the Holy Spirit, and not the wrong spirit, for the righteous answer.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Will God judge the SDA for picking up chairs after potluck on the Sabbath with death?
 

Formersda

Active member
AV Mk 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

That depend which group you put Jesus into.

Yours in Christ, Michael
And when was that sabbath created?
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Well you need the Holy Spirit if YOU cannot answer a very simple question.
"That also means that Jews will also be saved by a day without Jesus.", Are you ready to unpack, all the assumptions in your "very simple question"("Is there salvation in Jesus or a day?") then ???

Do you see where your opinion, clouded the question to be discussed ???

AV Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So you do not remember discussing "the gospel" in "salvation" then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Gn 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

How many seventh days did GOD create ???
How many first days did GOD create ???

What if GOD ended creating the next day, and the end happened ???
And when was that sabbath created?
AV Ex 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So spiritual synonyms by GOD are lost on you ???

We have discuss this as well.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Victor

Active member
Okay, you have no evidence. So should I assume that there is a reason to the dodge ???
I pointed out Adventism's dependence on the King James version for their foundation (addressed to someone else, not you), and now you're complaining because you can't find the reference in the White Estate. However, the theologians of the SDA church have already determined that there isn't any linguistic support for their explanation of alleged events revolving around 1844.

From SDA Dr. Raymond Cottrell's experience:

I first encountered problems with the traditional interpretation of Daniel 8:14, professionally, in the spring of 1955 during the process of editing comment on the Book of Daniel for volume 4 of the SDA Bible Commentary. As a work intended to meet the most exacting scholarly standards, we intended our comment to reflect the meaning obviously intended by the Bible writers. As an Adventist commentary it must also reflect, as accurately as possible, what Adventists believe and teach. But in Daniel 8 and 9 we found it hopelessly impossible to comply with both of these requirements.​
In 1958 the Review and Herald Publishing Association needed new printing plates for the classic book Bible Readings, and it was decided to revise it where necessary to agree with the Commentary. Coming again to the Book of Daniel I determined to try once more to find a way to be absolutely faithful to both Daniel and the traditional Adventist interpretation of 8:14, but again found it impossible. I then formulated six questions regarding the Hebrew text of the passage and its context, which I submitted to every college teacher versed in Hebrew and every head of the religion department in all of our North American colleges---all personal friends of mine. Without exception they replied that there is no linguistic or contextual basis for the traditional Adventist interpretation of Daniel 8:14.​
When the results of this questionnaire were called to the attention of the General Conference president, he and the Officers appointed the super-secret Committee on Problems in the Book of Daniel, of which I was a member. Meeting intermittently for five years (1961-1966), we considered 48 papers relative to Daniel 8 and 9, and in the spring of 1966 adjourned sine die, unable to reach a consensus.​
The Commentary experience with Daniel already mentioned led me into an unhurried, in-depth, spare-time, comprehensive study of Daniel 7 to 12 that continued without interruption for seventeen years (1955-1972), in quest of a conclusive solution to the sanctuary problem. My objective was to be fully prepared with definitive, objective, biblical information the next time the question should arise during the course of my ministry for the church.​
Among other things I memorized, in Hebrew, all relevant portions of Daniel 8 to 12 for instant recall and comparison (60 verses), conducted exhaustive word studies of more than 150 relevant Hebrew words Daniel uses, throughout the Old Testament, studied the Hebrew grammar and syntax in detail, made a minute analysis of contextual data, compared ancient Greek and Latin translations of Daniel, investigated relevant apocryphal and New Testament passages, traced Jewish and Christian interpretation of Daniel from ancient to modern times, and made an exhaustive study of the formation, development, and subsequent Adventist experience with the traditional sanctuary doctrine. Eventually I incorporated the results of this investigation into an 1100 page manuscript which I later reduced to 725 pages but decided not release for publication until an appropriate time.​
The above considerations conclusively demonstrate that our traditional interpretation of Daniel 8:14, the sanctuary, and the investigative judgment as set forth in Article 23 of Fundamental Beliefs does not accurately reflect the teaching of Scripture with respect to the ministry of Christ on our behalf since His return to heaven. Accordingly, it is appropriate (1) to note wherein Article 23 is thus defective, (2) to revise the article so as to reflect Bible teaching on this aspect of His ministry accurately, and (3) to suggest a process designed to protect the church from this and similar traumatic experiences in the future.​
Some of the concepts associated with the investigative judgment are, indeed, biblical, but the Bible itself nowhere associates them with an investigative judgment, for which there is no sola Scriptura basis whatever.​

Your used Dodge alludes to the fallacy of the KJVO-camp's problems when they encounter a verse that hasn't been translated accurately. One mis-translation led to a whole doctrine exclusive to the SDA church that the sect's own scholars have found to be defective.

Okay, we had fun with this diversion. I see that the OP's author has synthesized your answer to the OP from a post you wrote. To say you have problems is an understatement.
 

Victor

Active member
Prologue:
AV Gn 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

How many seventh days did GOD create ???
How many first days did GOD create ???

What if GOD ended creating the next day, and the end happened ???

AV Ex 20:11 For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So spiritual synonyms by GOD are lost on you ???

We have discuss this as well.
I hope others can see that this explanation demands the creation account repeats every week, and we appear on a new planet every seven days.
Uh, no.

Genesis 2:2 is quoted in Hebrews 4:4 to explain His rest that some of those having the Sabbath would not enter into (v.6). And Exodus 20:11 is a parallel to Deuteronomy 5:15
...remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Both passages refer to a singular event in the past as the reason the children of Israel were charged with the Sabbath.
Once again you're quoting passages you doesn't understand.
 

Victor

Active member
AV Mk 2:27-28 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Jesus explains that He is sovereign to the Sabbath in this passage. This is just as any ordinance is inferior to the One Who created it.

Matthew 17
24 When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, “Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?”​
25 He said, “Yes.”​
And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?”​
26 Peter said to Him, “From strangers.”​
Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free.​

The Sabbath isn't God's rest.
It wasn't made for space aliens, foreign nations, Neptunians, or anyone else.
And it wasn't made for God's adopted children no longer accounted as children of Israel or Gentile nations.

Galatians 4
Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father. 3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.​
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.​
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
I pointed out Adventism's dependence on the King James version for their foundation (addressed to someone else, not you), and now you're complaining because you can't find the reference in the White Estate. However, the theologians of the SDA church have already determined that there isn't any linguistic support for their explanation of alleged events revolving around 1844.

From SDA Dr. Raymond Cottrell's experience:

I first encountered problems with the traditional interpretation of Daniel 8:14, professionally, in the spring of 1955 during the process of editing comment on the Book of Daniel for volume 4 of the SDA Bible Commentary. As a work intended to meet the most exacting scholarly standards, we intended our comment to reflect the meaning obviously intended by the Bible writers. As an Adventist commentary it must also reflect, as accurately as possible, what Adventists believe and teach. But in Daniel 8 and 9 we found it hopelessly impossible to comply with both of these requirements.​
In 1958 the Review and Herald Publishing Association needed new printing plates for the classic book Bible Readings, and it was decided to revise it where necessary to agree with the Commentary. Coming again to the Book of Daniel I determined to try once more to find a way to be absolutely faithful to both Daniel and the traditional Adventist interpretation of 8:14, but again found it impossible. I then formulated six questions regarding the Hebrew text of the passage and its context, which I submitted to every college teacher versed in Hebrew and every head of the religion department in all of our North American colleges---all personal friends of mine. Without exception they replied that there is no linguistic or contextual basis for the traditional Adventist interpretation of Daniel 8:14.​
When the results of this questionnaire were called to the attention of the General Conference president, he and the Officers appointed the super-secret Committee on Problems in the Book of Daniel, of which I was a member. Meeting intermittently for five years (1961-1966), we considered 48 papers relative to Daniel 8 and 9, and in the spring of 1966 adjourned sine die, unable to reach a consensus.​
The Commentary experience with Daniel already mentioned led me into an unhurried, in-depth, spare-time, comprehensive study of Daniel 7 to 12 that continued without interruption for seventeen years (1955-1972), in quest of a conclusive solution to the sanctuary problem. My objective was to be fully prepared with definitive, objective, biblical information the next time the question should arise during the course of my ministry for the church.​
Among other things I memorized, in Hebrew, all relevant portions of Daniel 8 to 12 for instant recall and comparison (60 verses), conducted exhaustive word studies of more than 150 relevant Hebrew words Daniel uses, throughout the Old Testament, studied the Hebrew grammar and syntax in detail, made a minute analysis of contextual data, compared ancient Greek and Latin translations of Daniel, investigated relevant apocryphal and New Testament passages, traced Jewish and Christian interpretation of Daniel from ancient to modern times, and made an exhaustive study of the formation, development, and subsequent Adventist experience with the traditional sanctuary doctrine. Eventually I incorporated the results of this investigation into an 1100 page manuscript which I later reduced to 725 pages but decided not release for publication until an appropriate time.​
The above considerations conclusively demonstrate that our traditional interpretation of Daniel 8:14, the sanctuary, and the investigative judgment as set forth in Article 23 of Fundamental Beliefs does not accurately reflect the teaching of Scripture with respect to the ministry of Christ on our behalf since His return to heaven. Accordingly, it is appropriate (1) to note wherein Article 23 is thus defective, (2) to revise the article so as to reflect Bible teaching on this aspect of His ministry accurately, and (3) to suggest a process designed to protect the church from this and similar traumatic experiences in the future.​
Some of the concepts associated with the investigative judgment are, indeed, biblical, but the Bible itself nowhere associates them with an investigative judgment, for which there is no sola Scriptura basis whatever.​

Your used Dodge alludes to the fallacy of the KJVO-camp's problems when they encounter a verse that hasn't been translated accurately. One mis-translation led to a whole doctrine exclusive to the SDA church that the sect's own scholars have found to be defective.

Okay, we had fun with this diversion. I see that the OP's author has synthesized your answer to the OP from a post you wrote. To say you have problems is an understatement.
AV Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

Identifying players and ideologies in Daniel have had issues before. And not following Jesus' understanding is also an issue in understanding.

AV Jn 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

We not agreeing is to be expected, but one group is willing to "kill" the other group, is to be expected as well.

AV Mt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Satan has followers inside the SDA church, even at the top most levels, for "the shaking". And let this happen to promote free will choice to GOD ALONE in all groups !!!

AV Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Quoting them is not evidence to me, as to their correctness. It happened to the Jews, and it happened to SDAs.

AV Dn 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

My guess is, not many understand what Daniel meant in the whole Book of Daniel. Wait for it !!!

AV Mt 25:8-13 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

The choice of many to heed the Holy Spirit now, and not later, when Jesus judges.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Genesis 2:2 is quoted in Hebrews 4:4 to explain His rest that some of those having the Sabbath would not enter into (v.6). And Exodus 20:11 is a parallel to Deuteronomy 5:15
AV Mt 11:28-30 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light.

There are several rests in the Bible.

Is Jesus' walk on earth is an example of one or more of those rests ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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