Sabbath Day Salvation

JonHawk

Active member
In the SDA construct Father God created a husk or "Personality" (aka body) for Michael the archangel and into this husk was poured actual Deity (the Deity of the Father). The Personality or husk of Michael was God in the sense that the Deity was Michael's to keep provided he didn't screw up.

Part of not screwing up (according to the SDA's) is "honoring the Sabbath".

Had the incarnate archangel sinned it would have lost the license to operate the Deity
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; Jude 1:6
 

Victor

Active member
Ellen White
The sum and substance of the arguments of Satan is that sin may be immortalized, that Christ abolished the law, and that evil doers may be in favor with God. But the death of Christ tells a different story; for he died to vindicate the claims of the law, to give to the world and to angels an unanswerable argument of the immutability of the law of Jehovah. {ST, February 5, 1894 par. 11}
I find this particular quote to be especially disturbing.
To make a claim that evil doers can't be reconciled with the Living God, in light of God's conclusion that there is "none who does good, no, not one" (Psalm 53) is to reject the entire Gospel message.

That doesn't just show a lack of inspiration. It shows illiteracy in the magnitude of abject stupidity.
What was the Harmon family doing during their time in church before they were kicked out?
 

Victor

Active member
Still no verse in the bible then? Your creating straw man arguments
Not sure what you're complaining about. I find Python's contributions to be valuable. Were we to count the deviations from the topic of the OP, we would all be in a bit of a fix by now, don't you think?
 

Victor

Active member
"A legal religion can never lead souls to Christ; for it is a loveless, Christless religion. Our own works can never purchase salvation." DOA
What does DOA stand for, dead on arrival?
Psalm 49
5 Why should I fear in the days of evil,
When the iniquity at my heels surrounds me?
6 Those who trust in their wealth
And boast in the multitude of their riches,
7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother,
Nor give to God a ransom for him—
8 For the redemption of their souls is costly,
And it shall cease forever—
9 That he should continue to live eternally,
And not see the Pit.
 

Victor

Active member
AV Am 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

That is why GOD look for other revelation means. Go ahead and assume told GOD told no one.
I think you're missing the point, Mr Buzzard.
Mike claims that God won't do anything of the magnitude he makes a claim for in his posts without foretelling the event.
However...
Mike claims that his Sunday law garbage will happen without God bothering to tell anyone about it.

Need I explain the contradiction?

Now, why would God look for other revelation means? His Word is final.
 

JonHawk

Active member
For with you is the fountain of life; in your light we see light. Psalm 36:9
5 Why should I fear in the days of evil,
When the iniquity at my heels surrounds me?
6 Those who trust in their wealth
And boast in the multitude of their riches,
7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother,
Nor give to God a ransom for him—
8 For the redemption of their souls is costly,
And it shall cease forever—
9 That he should continue to live eternally,
And not see the Pit.
For you have delivered me from death and my feet from stumbling, that I may walk before God in the light of life. Psalm 56:12-13
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
She also stated in one of her commentaries that Jesus was a mighty, but not almighty God, sounds a lot like JW there!
Ps.50:1
The mighty God, even the Lord, hath spoken,
and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

2 Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.

3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence:
a fire shall devour before him,
and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

4 He shall call to the heavens from above,
and to the earth, that he may judge his people.

5 Gather my saints together unto me;
those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.

6 And the heavens shall declare his righteousness:
for God is judge himself.

Selah.​
 

pythons

Active member
I find this particular quote to be especially disturbing.
To make a claim that evil doers can't be reconciled with the Living God, in light of God's conclusion that there is "none who does good, no, not one" (Psalm 53) is to reject the entire Gospel message.

That doesn't just show a lack of inspiration. It shows illiteracy in the magnitude of abject stupidity.
What was the Harmon family doing during their time in church before they were kicked out?

From what I understand this concept of Jesus' purpose of vindicating the Holy Law of God comes from "The Great Controversy Theme".

The rubric claims that Lucifer became despondent after Michael was able to attend the councils of God and he wasn't. Lucifer became enraged when he wasn't consulted about the formation of mankind and started communicating his dissatisfaction to other angels. After Adam and Eve transgress the commandment and get removed from Eden Lucifer makes a type of legal charge against Father God, claiming that no one could follow His Holy Law and that He was being unfair and cruel to Adam and Eve. Lucifer broadcasts this charge throughout the galaxies and by doing so puts Father God into a real pickle.

Something has to be done about this - Michael steps forward and volunteers to become man and prove that mankind could follow God's Holy Law thereby "vindicating it". There is real risk in the plan because if Michael fails he will eternally cease to exist after the Deity is extracted from the "Personality" or husk.

Ellen White, Signs of the Times, June 9, 1898
Had the head of Christ been touched, the hope of the human race would have perished. Divine wrath would have come upon Christ as it came upon Adam. Christ and the church would have been without hope.


Ellen White
Because of sin, his posterity was born with inherent propensities of disobedience. But Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God. He took upon Himself human nature, and was tempted in all points as human nature is tempted. He could have sinned; He could have fallen,



Ellen White
The new tomb enclosed Him in its rocky chambers. If one single sin had tainted His character the stone would never have been rolled away from the door of His rocky chamber, and the world with its burden of guilt would have perished



Ellen White
Many claim that it was impossible for Christ to be overcome by temptation. Then He could not have been placed in Adam's position; He could not have gained the victory that Adam failed to gain. If we have in any sense a more trying conflict than had Christ, then He would not be able to succor us. But our Saviour took humanity, with all its liabilities. He took the nature of man, with the possibility of yielding to temptation. We have nothing to bear which He has not endured. . . . In man's behalf, Christ conquered by enduring the severest test. For our sake He exercised a self-control stronger than hunger or death.--The Desire of Ages, p. 117. {7ABC

Ellen White
The new tomb enclosed Him in its rocky chambers. If one single sin had tainted His character the stone would never have been rolled away from the door of His rocky chamber, and the world with its burden of guilt would have perished

Christ ONLY had ultimate power because He was a good Christ

He had infinite power only because He was perfectly obedient to His Father's will.” (Ellen G. White, Manuscript 99, 1903, pp. 3, 4. "Christian Education in Our Schools", September 1, 1903, see also Selected Messages book 3, page 141, chapter 19, ‘The incarnation’)


If Christ was BAD and messed up he would LOOSE the Deity Father God issued him.

Ellen White
Though Christ humbled Himself to become man, the Godhead was still His own. His Deity could not be lost WHILE He stood faithful and true to His loyalty. Surrounded with sorrow, suffering, and moral pollution, despised and rejected by the people to whom had been intrusted the oracles of heaven, Jesus could yet speak of Himself as the Son of man in heaven. He was ready to take once more His divine glory when His work on earth was done http://text.egwwritings.org/publicat...ost&resultId=1


The ramifications with all this looks really bad to me.

Ellen White affirmed it was IMPOSSIBLE for Deity to die or cease to exist and at the same time affirms that had Christ sinned he would have eternally ceased to exist - If Christ had sinned and rotted in the tomb never again to be aware in any sense yet it was impossible for Deity to die according to Ellen it has been proven Christ's deity was UNNATURAL to his Person - it would have had to be gifted - like a motorcycle endorsement on a State Drivers License. This is what the SDA Pioneers all claimed and all of Ellen's statements about this topic are compatible with the SDA anti-Trinitarians statements from 1854 to when Ellen White passed away.
 

John t

Super Member
Still no verse in the bible then? Your creating straw man arguments
HUH???

Seems as if you might have missed my point. I made that quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson because he accuately describes some of the cultist posters as a "foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds."

No Scripture was needed nor intended in my post. Besides, I was quoting Common Tater not you. Therefore, I am curious how that post led you to address me as if were upholding the SDA position. That is merely a question of revelancy, and not of offense taken.


Well, hold onto your hat. Here is a link to a paper by one of their own theologians that points out that virtually the entire leadership of the early SDA church was either Arian or Semi-Arian. They claim to be trinitarian now, but it differs from the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Adventism believes that the Godhead consists of three separate beings, not One Being that exists as Three co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial Persons. They also believe that the Atonement was not completed at the Cross.

That above wipes out any SDA claim to having a consistent, Bible-based consistent apologetic, which CT proves.
 

JonHawk

Active member
HUH???
Seems as if you might have missed my point. I made that quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson because he accuately describes some of the cultist posters as a "foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds."
There is nothing new under the sun. Foolish self-sufficient very stable geniuses are a dime a dozen.

What was Ralph Waldo Emerson famous works?
His most famous work, Ralph Waldo Emerson's Self-Reliance can truly change your life for the better.
Self-sufficiency, Emerson wrote, gives a person in society the freedom they need to discover one’s true self and attain one’s true independence.
Waldo's Quotes:
"Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string."
"Nature always wears the colors of the spirit."
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the image of a mortal human being.
 
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JonHawk

Active member
John t said:
HUH???
Seems as if you might have missed my point. I made that quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson because he accuately describes some of the cultist posters as a "foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds."
There is nothing new under the sun. Foolish self-sufficient very stable geniuses are a dime a dozen.

What was Ralph Waldo Emerson famous works?
His most famous work, Ralph Waldo Emerson's Self-Reliance can truly change your life for the better.
Self-sufficiency, Emerson wrote, gives a person in society the freedom they need to discover one’s true self and attain one’s true independence.
Waldo's Quotes:
"Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string."
"Nature always wears the colors of the spirit."
John t said:
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood?
Ole Waldo must have inspired the Animals.

And then you're bound to see my other side
But I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood
 

Common Tater

Active member
AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

I can show you the sabbath law as a sin, can you show me a Sunday Law of GOD's Words showing a sin to disregard Sunday rest and worship ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
I can show you that the Sabbath was the sign of the Sinaitic Covenent between God and the Children of Israel, and the Children of Israel alone.

And you continue to flog the false premise that people who attend corporate worship on Sunday see it as a Sabbath. The majority of us do not. We gather on the first day to celebrate the resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. If you would look to the early church, you will find that they met early on Sunday mornings to worship together and then went their separate ways, often to work.
You know better than to make the claim about sunday sabbatarianism and yet you continue to do so. This is dishonesty on your part.
 

Formersda

Active member
HUH???

Seems as if you might have missed my point. I made that quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson because he accuately describes some of the cultist posters as a "foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of small minds."

No Scripture was needed nor intended in my post. Besides, I was quoting Common Tater not you. Therefore, I am curious how that post led you to address me as if were upholding the SDA position. That is merely a question of revelancy, and not of offense taken.




That above wipes out any SDA claim to having a consistent, Bible-based consistent apologetic, which CT proves.
Apologies I thought I was replying to Micheal.
 

JonHawk

Active member
John t said:
“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — 'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.' — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood?
No apologies necessary because we are on the same team, attempting to convert those lost SDA peopls to accept the free grace offered by Jesus Christ.
For the record, it's not the free grace people who are going to worry about the writing on the wall.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
Jesus the non-sinning sabbath keeper said ...
AV Mt 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.
.., attempting to convert those lost SDA peopls to accept the free grace offered by Jesus Christ.
AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Convert to following Jesus' example ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

pythons

Active member
Prologue:
Jesus the non-sinning sabbath keeper said ...
AV Mt 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Convert to following Jesus' example ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Jesus, also non-sinning & phylacteries wearing.

Jesus was observant of Hanukkah which means Jesus believed the temple was cleaned prior to His Incarnation.

Do you follow Jesus' example in these areas? If not why not?
 

Common Tater

Active member
Prologue:
Jesus the non-sinning sabbath keeper said ...
AV Mt 4:19 And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.

AV 1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Convert to following Jesus' example ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Do you faithfully observe all the feasts and festivals? Do you eat the passover lamb? Do you attend a jewish synagogue each Sabbath?

It is obvious you've no problem with buying or selling on the sabbath or making someone work.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 7:1-2 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
AV Mk 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.
It is obvious you've no problem with buying or selling on the sabbath or making someone work.
Thank you for offering your opinion !!!

AV Ex 20:10 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:

Seeing that GOD knows. How much property do I own, in relationship to the identified relationships to me, for you to have commented on it ???

Please remember GOD will review your answer(s) for Truth and your ignorance of it.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Mt 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Did Jesus lie, to make your opinion a Truth ???

AV Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Or you accusing of something else ???
Do you attend a jewish synagogue each Sabbath?
AV 1C 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

What does Paul know, that you do not, to comment against Paul's understanding ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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