Salvation "by faith alone"

Saxon

Active member
first thanks for the reply, second, we will sum it up this way,
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things _________ for, the evidence of things not seen." fill in the blank.

understand, Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"
Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

PICJAG, 101G.
That is the biblical definition of Faith. Faith is how we receive Grace. I agree totally that the biblical definition of faith is correct.

Can you describe what you think faith is? What is the substance of things hoped for, and what is the evidence of things not seen? (I am not trying to be rude)
 

101G

Active member
That is the biblical definition of Faith. Faith is how we receive Grace. I agree totally that the biblical definition of faith is correct.

Can you describe what you think faith is? What is the substance of things hoped for, and what is the evidence of things not seen? (I am not trying to be rude)
sure the guarantee of that hope.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Saxon

Active member
sure the guarantee of that hope.

PICJAG, 101G.
What is the substance of things hoped for, and what is the evidence of things not seen?

I start off by saying that everything that a human does is by faith, that is our operating system. The lower animals do everything by instinct. That is their operating system.

If you want to sit in a chair, the substance of things hoped for is you sitting on the chair. The evidence of things not seen is the chair is holding you.

Now if the chair collapses leaving you sprawled out on the floor, does that mean that your faith was no good?
 

101G

Active member
to make it better to understand, we can look at it this way, "Hope set the Goal, and FAITH goes and gets it". I like how the Weymouth NT translation states it also, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see."
Hebrews 11:2 "For by it the saints of old won God's approval."

for without FAITH it;s impossible to please God.

Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

as in your chair example, if you "SEE" a chair, you judge it. because one will not sit or have faith is a chair that is not stable. so we see it. but if some one say I have a chair that an elephant can sit on and it a small stool. no.

but to me, as some say, Belief, and Faith, it's like a two sided coin, it's like a double one worded word which are alike, but have two meaning.
as in the GREEK term POWER,

A. G1849, exousia, the RIGHT, or the PRIVILIGE to do something, "Belief"

B. G1411, dunamis, the ABILITY, MIGHT, to do something, hence "FAITH"

PICJAG, 101G
 

Abounds

Active member
So pooping is over with?

Unless you are converted.

Then pooping is ok?
Are you saying.. Pooping= works? And works wont save you unless you are converted...then "pooping" is ok? That is a weird thought

If that's what you are saying maybe don't use pooping. Your post is poop.
 
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Saxon

Active member
to make it better to understand, we can look at it this way, "Hope set the Goal, and FAITH goes and gets it". I like how the Weymouth NT translation states it also, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is a well-grounded assurance of that for which we hope, and a conviction of the reality of things which we do not see."
Hebrews 11:2 "For by it the saints of old won God's approval."

for without FAITH it;s impossible to please God.
Is hope not part of faith?
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

as in your chair example, if you "SEE" a chair, you judge it. because one will not sit or have faith is a chair that is not stable. so we see it. but if some one say I have a chair that an elephant can sit on and it a small stool. no.

but to me, as some say, Belief, and Faith, it's like a two sided coin, it's like a double one worded word which are alike, but have two meaning.
as in the GREEK term POWER,

A. G1849, exousia, the RIGHT, or the PRIVILIGE to do something, "Belief"

B. G1411, dunamis, the ABILITY, MIGHT, to do something, hence "FAITH"

PICJAG, 101G
I see what you are saying about two meanings. As for faith, I see it as a double action word. Faith comes first, but in order to make faith effective, it must be followed by an action. Faith without works is dead.

Now if the chair collapses leaving you sprawled out on the floor, does that mean that your faith was no good?
 

101G

Active member
Is hope not part of faith?
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
this is what makes FAITH... let put it another way, when you press on the Gas pedle the car move correct...... this is the relationship. scripture, Matthew 17:20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."


PICJAG, 101G.
Is hope not part of faith?
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

I see what you are saying about two meanings. As for faith, I see it as a double action word. Faith comes first, but in order to make faith effective, it must be followed by an action. Faith without works is dead.

Now if the chair collapses leaving you sprawled out on the floor, does that mean that your faith was no good?
if the chair collapse, NO, just your poor eyesight, and judgment. for the collapses chair is your fault, and not God's. remember, if you would believe "WITHOUT DOUBT", again, Matthew 17:20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Saxon

Active member
this is what makes FAITH... let put it another way, when you press on the Gas pedle the car move correct...... this is the relationship. scripture, Matthew 17:20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."
I Agree.
PICJAG, 101G.

if the chair collapse, NO, just your poor eyesight, and judgment. for the collapses chair is your fault, and not God's. remember, if you would believe "WITHOUT DOUBT", again, Matthew 17:20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."

PICJAG, 101G.
I would like to suggest that it was totally the fault of the chair. I have worked in the aviation field for a while and there are some faults that can not be seem unless you are looking for them. These flaws need to be looked for using ultrasonic techniques, x-ray or magnaflux. All these tests will uncover cracks and other flaws that are imbedded within metal components. If the chair was damaged inside the structure you would never see it. The chair was at fault. the fact that you were spilled to the floor is evidence that yourfaith was in the chair. The quantity of faith is not the factor, it is where you place your faith.
 

101G

Active member
I Agree.

I would like to suggest that it was totally the fault of the chair. I have worked in the aviation field for a while and there are some faults that can not be seem unless you are looking for them. These flaws need to be looked for using ultrasonic techniques, x-ray or magnaflux. All these tests will uncover cracks and other flaws that are imbedded within metal components. If the chair was damaged inside the structure you would never see it. The chair was at fault. the fact that you were spilled to the floor is evidence that yourfaith was in the chair. The quantity of faith is not the factor, it is where you place your faith.
Thanks, for the reply, agreed. all things that come into the world is from the spirit world, and is perfect. it is man that is imperfect. but as said, our faith is not in the chair, but in God. even if the chair contain faults, unseen to the natural eye, our faith in God will withhold the chair. I have seen where a bridge had faults and was seen, and yet it did not fail until the last vehicle crossed it.

and also from personal spiritual experience I have lived what God can do. I remember I was speaking at a SS Review, and what I was presenting was radical to the current belief. and while speaking, the devil said you're going to fail, and fall flat on your face. and instantly the devil placed in my mind, (while I was still speaking), a tree, a big tree, and I was out on a limb, Literally, and with a sawing sound as if the limb I was standing on was being cut.

well I stayed the course, and said to myself, if I fall then let God catch me before I hit the ground if not then what I was speaking was not of God. see, I believed what God gave me to speak was true, it was up to me to believe God.

well guess what happen, the sawing continue, and finally I heard a pop from the strain on the tree limb from the cutting, and finally I heard the sound of something falling, well I got louder in my speech, I said to myself if this is of God what do I have to fear. and all of a sudden I HEARD A BIG CRASH to the ground, (remember all of this is playing out in my head), and when I heard the loud bang as it hit the ground, I looked and the tree had fallen, and the tree branch I was standing on was in mid air, it never fell. and just about that time and elder stood up and said, "you know you're right in what you're saying". God not only honored what I was saying, but gave me the victory in faith by letting the whole tree fall and the branch I was standing on stayed in the same place. he said you're standing on FAITH, and the tree branch was defying the natural order of gravity.

so I know to A. FEAR NOT, B. BELIEVE.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Slyzr

Active member
Are you saying.. Pooping= works? And works wont save you unless you are converted...then "pooping" is ok? That is a weird thought

If that's what you are saying maybe don't use pooping. Your post is poop.

Of course .....
 
How can we tell if someone is a Christian? By their fruits!

Matthew 7 KJV
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

We love Him because He first loved us!

John 14 KJV
18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15 KJV
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Some people think they can't obey. The Bible doesn't say Christians can't obey. If we are Christians we can obey!


Philippians 4
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

IOW, Christ gives us strength to obey His will. Without faith, we just say, "I can't be kind, I can't forgive, I can't serve Christ."

When we get to heaven, do we deserve rewards? What do we deserve?

The gift of God is eternal life! Are we going to tell God that we deserve more?

Ephesians 1 KJV
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Are we blessed with only some or all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ?

Philippians 1
3 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, 4 Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, 5 For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 1
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; 5That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; 6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.


Praise God!
 

JonHawk

Member
I agree with this line of reasoning. One major problem with those who are anti-works is that they never differentiate between the different kinds of works the Bible talks about. There are four...


"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21

You can't even get into the church, the body of the saved (the kingdom) without doing the will of God, much less Heaven. That's an explicit statement and is ungetaroundable.

Each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;

So would doing the will of God consist of man doing the best of his ability or would it be partaking of that which God prepared beforehand?

That we may be saved from this corrupt age, according to the will of our God.
 

JonHawk

Member
Yes.

P.S. Welcome to the forums. :)
Thank you for the hospitality.

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And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world.
And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
 
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