Salvation is 100 % a Gift of Gods Grace !

Theo1689

Well-known member
All men

Titus 2:11 (KJV)
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Does it say, "bringeth SALVATION to all men"?
Or does it say, "hath APPEARED to all men"?

Romans 5:18 (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Once again, the CONTEXT of Rom. 5 is those "who HAVE BEEN justified" (v.1), and who HAVE BEEN GIVEN the Holy Spirit (v.5).

And that is NOT "all men everywhere".
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Does it say, "bringeth SALVATION to all men"?
Or does it say, "hath APPEARED to all men"?

Appear, Appearing, Light (bring to; give), Lighten, Shine, Shining
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Oh do you think the unconditionally reprobate are given light that bringeth salvation

While you hold the unregenerate cannot understand the gospel or spiritual things

Your position appears contradictory

Once again, the CONTEXT of Rom. 5 is those "who HAVE BEEN justified" (v.1), and who HAVE BEEN GIVEN the Holy Spirit (v.5).

And that is NOT "all men everywhere".

When Paul speaks of the justified he speaks of those that receive

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

if what you claimed were true and all men equal those justified he would continue using the all men rather than they which receive

but he doesn't

Romans 5:12 (KJV)
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 5:18 (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

and switches to the wider all men

This grace is a free gift (v18) which comes upon all men but must be received to benefit
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Thats Works, merit not Grace.
That scripture

You tout another gospel

Salvation is conditioned upon faith

Acts 16:30-31 (KJV)
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Romans 1:16 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I believe I have seen you state salvation was conditional but election was unconditional
I say that. But my point to him is that each of the 5-Solas are %100 the reason we're Saved. Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Christ Alone. These are three %100's...
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I say that. But my point to him is that each of the 5-Solas are %100 the reason we're Saved. Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Christ Alone. These are three %100's...
He would probably deny through faith alone

but I do not see that you can affirm what he asked
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Oh do you think the unconditionally reprobate are given light that bringeth salvation

I'll let Scripture answer your question:

John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.


While you hold the unregenerate cannot understand the gospel or spiritual things

Your position appears contradictory

Not at all.

Romans 5:18 (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

and switches to the wider all men

No, that is not a "switch", it is simply inclusive for ALL of the elect, all of the context already defined earlier.

This grace is a free gift (v18) which comes upon all men but must be received to benefit

Sorry, but it NEVER says, "but must be received to benefit".
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
He would probably deny through faith alone

but I do not see that you can affirm what he asked
I affirm what he said in the Post because we ARE Saved by Grace Alone. I also affirm what you say; we're Saved through Faith Alone...

He and you agree that these two things are not Compatible...
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I affirm what he said in the Post because we ARE Saved by Grace Alone. I also affirm what you say; we're Saved through Faith Alone...

He and you agree that these two things are not Compatible...
He stated no
I affirm what he said in the Post because we ARE Saved by Grace Alone. I also affirm what you say; we're Saved through Faith Alone...

He and you agree that these two things are not Compatible...
He stated no conditions

You cannot consistently affirm that given your previous comments
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Good question
Like I say, my Fundamentalism helps me out a lot; I highly recommend it to all. When a Fundamental confronts a belief, but the belief is contrary to the Fundamental, the belief has to yield to the Fundamental...

But when someone makes the Fundamental yield to the belief, a Stronghold has prevailed...
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Good question
Professor Flowers told me that the Gospel is the only Grace of God required to be Saved. TomL has said the Gospel and the Holy Spirit are the only Graces of God required to be Saved; that's better. Classical Arminians say that prevening Illumination is the Grace of God required to be Saved; even better. Calvinism says that prevening Regeneration is the Grace of God required to be Saved; that's the best...
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
But TomL; by definition, Grace is unconditional. Are you saying that Grace is Conditional?
Except the topic is salvation not grace

and you affirmed salvation as conditional

Good question
Not really as he switched topics from salvation to grace

ReverendRV stated

Like I say, my Fundamentalism helps me out a lot; I highly recommend it to all. When a Fundamental confronts a belief, but the belief is contrary to the Fundamental, the belief has to yield to the Fundamental...

But when someone makes the Fundamental yield to the belief, a Stronghold has prevailed...

and when that does not work just try switching topics as you did above:)

You got caught however
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Except the topic is salvation not grace

and you affirmed salvation as conditional


Not really as he switched topics from salvation to grace



and when that does not work just try switching topics as you did above:)

You got caught however
brightfame52 said:
Do you believe Salvation is 100% of the Grace of God ? No conditions

I jumped in the conversation when he asked me about Grace, so I didn't change the topic friend. Salvation IS conditioned on Faith Alone, but by definition, Saving Grace cannot be conditional; because Grace is Unmerited Favor...

So, are you saying that Grace and Salvation are the same thing?
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
I jumped in the conversation when he asked me about Grace, so I didn't change the topic friend. Salvation IS conditioned on Faith Alone, but by definition, Saving Grace cannot be conditional; because Grace is Unmerited Favor...

So, are you saying that Grace and Salvation are the same thing?
Faith is conditioned on Grace being given, see the elect believes because of Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

The prep through is the greek word dia and means:


  1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
    1. by reason of
    2. on account of
    3. because of for this reason
    4. therefore
    5. on this account

So you see, believing is because of Grace. So again Salvation, to include faith, is 100% of Gods Grace. Now do you believe that or no ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I jumped in the conversation when he asked me about Grace, so I didn't change the topic friend. Salvation IS conditioned on Faith Alone, but by definition, Saving Grace cannot be conditional; because Grace is Unmerited Favor...

So, are you saying that Grace and Salvation are the same thing?

The simply fact is he noted grace means salvation has no conditions

That is the topic I raised based on what he stated and you responded to

You have affirmed Salvation has a condition

You cannot wiggle your way out of that
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
The simply fact is he noted grace means salvation has no conditions

That is the topic I raised based on what he stated and you responded to

You have affirmed Salvation has a condition

You cannot wiggle your way out of that
Grace does mean Salvation has no conditions. Grace is Unmerited Favor; right?
 
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