Sam Shamoun Vs Matt Slick: Is Limited Atonement Biblical?

zerinus

Active member
Not answered

You ran to another passage

Ignoring the fact your religion teaches black skin was a curse upon certain whites because of their rebellion against God
I tell you what I believe, you don't tell me what I believe.
 

civic

Active member
More gaslighting from you. That is taken out of context. Here is what the Book of Mormon really teaches about race:

2 Nephi 26:

33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.


Are you going to repent and apologize now?
another evasive post not dealing with your scripture(the book of mormon is not) posted by Tom. He is 100% correct from your own book below

2 Nephi 5:21
And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and bdelightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

your own OFFICIAL website: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/5?lang=eng

Repent now of your mormon lies as you said you would. Are you still in denial ?

so much for trying to lull the wool over our eyes eh ?

hope this helps !!!
 

zerinus

Active member
another evasive post not dealing with your scripture(the book of mormon is not) posted by Tom. He is 100% correct from your own book below

2 Nephi 5:21
And he had caused the acursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and bdelightsome, that they might not be centicing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

your own OFFICIAL website: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/5?lang=eng

Repent now of your mormon lies as you said you would. Are you still in denial ?

so much for trying to lull the wool over our eyes eh ?
How is it that your quote from the Book of Mormon counts and mine doesn't? That is hypocrisy. Address my quote first, and I will address yours.
hope this helps !!!
Hope that helps !!!
 

civic

Active member
How is it that your quote from the Book of Mormon counts and mine doesn't? That is hypocrisy. Address my quote first, and I will address yours.

Hope that helps !!!
its you book on mormon I quoted about black skin and the curse, not my book the bible.
 

Bob Carabbio

Active member

Is Limited Atonement Biblical?​

Of course it is!!! the question is who "limits" it.

Obviously a person WHO DOES NOT under conviction, surrender repent, and call on God in FAITH for salvation, LIMITS ATONEMENT by refusing it (like I did every time - until the last time when the Atonement became mine). I would have probably rejected the last time too, but I was afraid that He wouldn't convict me of SIN again (it had been a LONG time since the last time), and I'd be lost eternally. No "Conviction of SIN and judgement" = No possibility of Salvation.

The Calvinist "L", on the other hand, implies that there are people WHO ARE NEVER DRAWN to Christ, who never had a chance, and are nothing more than "Firewood walking".

The unfortunate FACT, though, is that the Gate into LIFE is NARROW, and few find it. The Calvinist "L", however suggests that there are people, who HAVE NO "narrow gate", and can Only walk the broad way into destruction.

The Calvinist, of course, would cite me as an EXAMPLE of one who WAS "ELect", WAS included in the Atonement, WAS an example of "I" (irresistable Grace), and so far IS an example of "P" (unconditional Perseverance).

But it's only "Theology" of course. All God's Chilluns got's "Theologies".
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I tell you what I believe, you don't tell me what I believe.
I do not care what you believe. I told you what Mormonism teaches

If you do not believe their doctrine well then maybe you have better check if you still have that burning in the bosom.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
In which case I couldn't care less about what you have to say. I tell you what I believe, you don't tell me what I believe.
You don't get it

What you believe is not the issue. What Mormonism teaches is.

If you do not believe what it teaches then perhaps you should not be proselytizing for it
 

zerinus

Active member
nice bait n switch the discussion is your book.
You introduced the comparison with the Bible. Now you are backpedalling because it didn't work. I personally don't believe there are contradictions in the Bible or the Book of Mormon. There are apparent contradictions, but not real ones. That is equally true of the Book of Mormon. You are employing double standards. You are not applying the same standard to the Book of Mormon that you apply to the Bible. There are apparent contradictions in both, and this is one of them. You are giving your quote out of context. That quote has a very limited and specific applicability to the people and circumstances to which it relates. The Book of Mormon's general attitude to race is reflected in the quote I had given, not the one you gave.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Then I don't care what you have to say neither.

I tell you what Mormonism teaches, you don't tell me.
No you do not tell me

The book of Mormon told me what it has to say about black skin

Your other sources of theology tell me what Mormonism teaches about a man becoming God, eternal marriage, a planet called Kolob, God physically procreating with Mary etc
 

zerinus

Active member
No you do not tell me
Your word against mine. I am the Mormon guy round here. I tell you what I believe, you don't tell me.
The book of Mormon told me what it has to say about black skin
Answer given in post #113 above.
Your other sources of theology tell me what Mormonism teaches about a man becoming God, eternal marriage, a planet called Kolob, God physically procreating with Mary etc
Each of which requires a separate discussion, some of which are true and some false.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Your word against mine. I am the Mormon guy round here. I tell you what I believe, you don't tell me.

Answer given in post #113 above.

Each of which requires a separate discussion, some of which are true and some false.
Again I do not care what you say you believe

I can read for myself what the book of Mormon has to say about the curse of black skin

I can see for myself Mormon doctrines such as celestial marriage the idea that God was once as we are and we can be exactly like God are not biblical doctrines

You say Joseph Smith was a true prophet

He said this and other Mormon sources agree

I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us.... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol. 6, 305-307, emphasis added)
“It is a ‘Mormon’ truism that is current among us and we all accept it, that as man is God once was and as God is man may become.” (Melvin J. Ballard – Mormon Apostle General Conf. address, April 6, 1921)

So where do you find that in the bible ? The book of Mormon ?

So your claim that you have only two sources of authority the bible and the book of Mormon is false and cannot be trusted.
 
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TomFL

Well-known member
Then I don't care about what you have to say neither, end of conversation.

This was never answered

Again I do not care what you say you believe

I can read for myself what the book of Mormon has to say about the curse of black skin

I can see for myself Mormon doctrines such as celestial marriage the idea that God was once as we are and we can be exactly like God are not biblical doctrines

You say Joseph Smith was a true prophet

He said this and other Mormon sources agree

I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us.... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol. 6, 305-307, emphasis added)
“It is a ‘Mormon’ truism that is current among us and we all accept it, that as man is God once was and as God is man may become.” (Melvin J. Ballard – Mormon Apostle General Conf. address, April 6, 1921)

So where do you find that in the bible ? The book of Mormon ?

So your claim that you have only two sources of authority the bible and the book of Mormon is false and cannot be trusted.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I remember Mormonism taught black babies had inferior souls, or something disgusting like that. I commend Matt Slick for having the stomach to read all their made up crud.

Yep...
The LDS church had taught that Black children had the "curse of Cain", which was their Black skin, and made them inferior. However, if they received the gospel, the Book of Mormon taught that they would come "WHITE and delightsome".

After the "prophet" changed doctrine and Blacks were allowed into the priesthood, the church CHANGED the BoM to make it read "PURE and delightsome" instead.
 
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