Sam Shamoun Vs Matt Slick: Is Limited Atonement Biblical?

zerinus

Active member
This was never answered

Again I do not care what you say you believe

I can read for myself what the book of Mormon has to say about the curse of black skin
Answered in post #113. Not my problem if you don't want to hear.
I can see for myself Mormon doctrines such as celestial marriage the idea that God was once as we are and we can be exactly like God are not biblical doctrines
Not contradicted either. The Early Church Fathers believed in men can become gods, and saw no contradiction with the Bible.
You say Joseph Smith was a true prophet
I do.
He said this and other Mormon sources agree

“It is a ‘Mormon’ truism that is current among us and we all accept it, that as man is God once was and as God is man may become.” (Melvin J. Ballard – Mormon Apostle General Conf. address, April 6, 1921)

So where do you find that in the bible ? The book of Mormon ?
It doesn't have to be. We have other scriptures.
So your claim that you have only two sources of authority the bible and the book of Mormon is false and cannot be trusted.
I never said those are the only sources. Our Canon of scripture has four books: the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Those are what constitute our canon of scripture, and the official source of our doctrine. Nothing supersedes those, unless it is canonized in the same way.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Answered in post #113. Not my problem if you don't want to hear.

Not contradicted either. The Early Church Fathers believed in men can become gods, and saw no contradiction with the Bible.

I do.

It doesn't have to be. We have other scriptures.

I never said those are the only sources. Our Canon of scripture has four books: the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. Those are what constitute our canon of scripture, and the official source of our doctrine. Nothing supersedes those, unless it is canonized in the same way as they are.
I did not ask you about church fathers

I asked you if those doctrines could be found in the bible or the book of Mormon

Both the book of Mormon and the bible state there is but one true God

but your religion teaches there are many like that one true God

God himself stated he knows not any

Is. 44:8 —KJV
“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”

The Book of Mormon

..And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

How is it your doctrinal sources contradict one another

That God was once a man

Yet the book of Mormon says God does not change

God is unchanging.
Mormon 9:9, 19; Moroni 8:18; Alma 41:8; 3 Nephi 24:6.

BTW Does the book of Mormon teach men can become Gods


and your so called answer to

I can read for myself what the book of Mormon has to say about the curse of black skin

just ran to another passage

So I will ask you straight out

Was Black skin a curse on the previously white Lamanites

And he had caused the cursing to come upon them,
yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity.
For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint;
wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people
the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.
And thus saith the Lord God:

“I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities. And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;
for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.”
 
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zerinus

Active member
I did not ask you about church fathers

* * *
You are being belligerent. It is obvious that you are not interested in engaging in a serious discussion, and I have no interest whatsoever in participating in that kind of debate with anyone. Have a nice day.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You are being belligerent. It is obvious that you are not interested in engaging in a serious discussion, and I have no interest whatsoever in participating in that kind of debate with anyone. Have a nice day.
What I am not interrested in is diversion

If I ask you if the bible or the book of Mormon supports such a doctrine I don't want to hear about church Fathers

They are not one of your sources of authority

and that is not a serious reply to the question

.............................................

I did not ask you about church fathers

I asked you if those doctrines could be found in the bible or the book of Mormon

Both the book of Mormon and the bible state there is but one true God

but your religion teaches there are many like that one true God

God himself stated he knows not any

Is. 44:8 —KJV
“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”

The Book of Mormon

..And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

How is it your doctrinal sources contradict one another

That God was once a man

Yet the book of Mormon says God does not change

God is unchanging.
Mormon 9:9, 19; Moroni 8:18; Alma 41:8; 3 Nephi 24:6.

BTW Does the book of Mormon teach men can become Gods


and your so called answer to

I can read for myself what the book of Mormon has to say about the curse of black skin

just ran to another passage

So I will ask you straight out

Was Black skin a curse on the previously white Lamanites

And he had caused the cursing to come upon them,

yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity.

For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint;



wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people

the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.



And thus saith the Lord God:

“I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities. And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;

for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.”
 

TomFL

Well-known member
LOL! He is simply being belligerent. He is not interested in discussion. The right answer to it is the one I gave. I am not the one to shy away from a respectful, cordial discussion.




They are not one of your sources of authority and that is not a serious reply to the question.............................................I did not ask you about church fathers

I asked you if those doctrines could be found in the bible or the book of Mormon

Both the book of Mormon and the bible state there is but one true God

but your religion teaches there are many like that one true God

God himself stated he knows not any

Is. 44:8 —KJV
“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”

The Book of Mormon

..And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)

Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)

How is it your doctrinal sources contradict one another

That God was once a man

Yet the book of Mormon says God does not change

God is unchanging.
Mormon 9:9, 19; Moroni 8:18; Alma 41:8; 3 Nephi 24:6.

BTW Does the book of Mormon teach men can become Gods


and your so called answer to

I can read for myself what the book of Mormon has to say about the curse of black skin

just ran to another passage

So I will ask you straight out

Was Black skin a curse on the previously white Lamanites

And he had caused the cursing to come upon them,


yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity.


For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint;





wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people


the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.





And thus saith the Lord God:

“I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities. And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed;

for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done.”

It is not so easy to reconcile Mormon theology with the Bible or even the book of Mormon alone
 

zerinus

Active member
I asked you if those doctrines could be found in the bible or the book of Mormon
Let's focus on one thing at a time.
Both the book of Mormon and the bible state there is but one true God

but your religion teaches there are many like that one true God
Strictly, that is not an accurate expression of the doctrine. The doctrine is that man has the potential to be deified, or become divine, or become god. That is the doctrine. Does that necessarily contradict the Bible? I don't think so. Deification does not mean that we become independent deities from God the Father or Jesus Christ. We still remain subject to and subordinate to them, and continue to worship them for the rest of eternity as our God. That is what the doctrine of deification in the theology of Latter-day Saints is. It is a definition of salvation. In LDS theology, to be saved, or gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom of God, means to be deified. It is a gift that is given to man by God. We don't become supreme beings independent of God the Father and Jesus Christ. And I believe there are biblical passages that can be given to support it. The early Christians also believed in this doctrine, and they did not see a conflict between that and the Bible.
God himself stated he knows not any

Is. 44:8 —KJV
“Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.”
That was a reference to the idol worship of Israelites. It does not invalidate the doctrine of deification in LDS theology.
The Book of Mormon

..And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. (2 Nephi 31:21)

Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No. (Alma 11:28-29)
The same here. All deified beings in LDS theology will continue to worship God the Father and Jesus Christ for the rest of eternity.
Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil. (Alma 11:44)

And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end. (Mormon 7:7)
See above.
How is it your doctrinal sources contradict one another

That God was once a man

Yet the book of Mormon says God does not change

God is unchanging.
Mormon 9:9, 19; Moroni 8:18; Alma 41:8; 3 Nephi 24:6.
That is a slightly different issue. The doctrine of deification of man is something that is taught in LDS scripture, therefore it is official Church doctrine. The idea that God the Father was once a man who progressed to become God is not found in LDS scripture, therefore strictly speaking is not an official doctrine of the Church. It was taught by Joseph Smith in a public sermon, therefore it is generally accepted to be a true doctrine, and I personally believe that it is true; but strictly speaking it is not a doctrine of the Church. Reconciling it with other scriptural teachings of the immutability and unchangeableness of God, and also his eternal nature, is not impossible according to LDS theology. Modern LDS scripture teaches that those are divine attributes that can be acquired.
BTW Does the book of Mormon teach men can become Gods
See above. The rest of your post deal with a different subject entirely, which are best discussed separately.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Let's focus on one thing at a time.

Strictly, that is not an accurate expression of the doctrine. The doctrine is that man has the potential to be deified, or become divine, or become god. That is the doctrine. Does that necessarily contradict the Bible? I don't think so. Deification does not mean that we become independent deities from God the Father or Jesus Christ. We still remain subject to and subordinate to them, and continue to worship them for the rest of eternity as our God. That is what the doctrine of deification in the theology of Latter-day Saints is. It is a definition of salvation. In LDS theology, to be saved, or gain exaltation in the celestial kingdom of God, means to be deified. It is a gift that is given to man by God. We don't become supreme beings independent of God the Father and Jesus Christ. And I believe there are biblical passages that can be given to support it. The early Christians also believed in this doctrine, and they did not see a conflict between that and the Bible.
Come on

This is Mormon doctrine

God an Exalted Man​

I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible, — I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form — like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another. Joseph Smith - The King Follett Discourse

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!…I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in formlike yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man.…I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea.…he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did. …Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one degree to another… from exaltation to exaltation, until you… sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.”—Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith,pp. 345-346

Below the Bible

The bible does not teach God was once an exalted man who progress to godhood

Nor doers it teach multiple God

Deut. 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him.
Deut. 4:39 know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
Deut. 32:39 ¶ “ ‘See now that I, even I, am he,
and there is no god beside me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Is. 37:20 So now, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone are the LORD.”
Is. 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
Is. 44:6 ¶ Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
Is. 44:7 Who is like me? Let him proclaim it.1
Let him declare and set it before me,
since I appointed an ancient people.
Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.
Is. 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
mIs there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any.”
Is. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
Is. 45:14 ¶ Thus says the LORD:
“The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush,
and the Sabeans, men of stature,
shall come over to you rand be yours;
they shall follow you;
they shall come over in chains and bow down to you.
They will plead with you, saying:
‘Surely God is in you, and there is no other,
no god besides him.’”
Is. 45:21 Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.
Is. 45:22 ¶ “Turn to me and be saved,
hall the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
Is. 46:9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,

and he doers not change

Heb. 1:10–12 —ASV
“And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:
They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail.”

Psa. 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth,
or ever you had formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
 

zerinus

Active member
Come on

This is Mormon doctrine

God an Exalted Man​

* * *
Like I said, it is obvious that you are not interested in a serious discussion; you just want to be belligerent. That is an issue that I had addressed towards the end of my post. You are making it sound as if I was trying to hide something, when I wasn't. The doctrine of deification of man is one thing; the doctrine that God the Father was once a man who progressed to became God is another thing. I had addressed both in my post, the first at the beginning of my post, and the second towards the end. Now you are trying to make out as if I was trying to hide something, which I wasn't. It is obvious that you are not interested in a serious discussion, and I can't be bothered with that. End of the discussion. This will be the last attempt. Have a nice day.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Like I said, it is obvious that you are not interested in a serious discussion; you just want to be belligerent. That is an issue that I had addressed towards the end of my post. You are making it sound as if I was trying to hide something, when I wasn't. The doctrine of deification of man is one thing; the doctrine that God the Father was once a man who progressed to became God is another thing. I had addressed both in my post, the first at the beginning of my post, and the second towards the end. Now you are trying to make out as if I was trying to hide something, which I wasn't. It is obvious that you are not interested in a serious discussion, and I can't be bothered with that. End of the discussion. This will be the last attempt. Have a nice day.
Why did you run from the blatant contradiction between the bible and Mormon theology ?

This is Mormon doctrine

God an Exalted Man​

I will go back to the beginning before the world was, to show what kind of being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why He interferes with the affairs of man.

God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible, — I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form — like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another. Joseph Smith - The King Follett Discourse

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!…I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in formlike yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man.…I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea.…he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did. …Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one degree to another… from exaltation to exaltation, until you… sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.”—Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, compiled by Joseph Fielding Smith,pp. 345-346

Below the Bible

The bible does not teach God was once an exalted man who progress to godhood

Nor doers it teach multiple God's

Deut. 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him.
Deut. 4:39 know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.
Deut. 32:39 ¶ “ ‘See now that I, even I, am he,
and there is no god beside me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Is. 37:20 So now, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone are the LORD.”
Is. 43:10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor shall there be any after me.
Is. 44:6 ¶ Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel
and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts:
“I am the first and I am the last;
besides me there is no god.
Is. 44:7 Who is like me? Let him proclaim it.1
Let him declare and set it before me,
since I appointed an ancient people.
Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.
Is. 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid;
have I not told you from of old and declared it?
And you are my witnesses!
mIs there a God besides me?
There is no Rock; I know not any.”
Is. 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other,
besides me there is no God;
I equip you, though you do not know me,
Is. 45:14 ¶ Thus says the LORD:
“The wealth of Egypt and the merchandise of Cush,
and the Sabeans, men of stature,
shall come over to you rand be yours;
they shall follow you;
they shall come over in chains and bow down to you.
They will plead with you, saying:
‘Surely God is in you, and there is no other,
no god besides him.’”
Is. 45:21 Declare and present your case;
let them take counsel together!
Who told this long ago?
Who declared it of old?
Was it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other god besides me,
a righteous God and a Savior;
there is none besides me.
Is. 45:22 ¶ “Turn to me and be saved,
hall the ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.
Is. 46:9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,

and he does not change

Heb. 1:10–12 —ASV
“And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:
They shall perish; but thou continuest: And they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
And as a mantle shalt thou roll them up, As a garment, and they shall be changed: But thou art the same, And thy years shall not fail.”

Psa. 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth,
or ever you had formed the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
 

zerinus

Active member
Why did you run from the blatant contradiction between the bible and Mormon theology ?

This is Mormon doctrine

God an Exalted Man​

* * *
Not interested. Take it to the Mormonism forum. I am sure there will be others who will be willing to reply.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
This is hilarious!
I need to go get some more popcorn!
You two deserve each other! :) :) :D
Are ad hominin and insult all you got ?

You don't do exegesis

and you don't do rebuttal.

If it were not for the fore mentioned you would be mute
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Are ad hominin and insult all you got ?

You don't do exegesis

and you don't do rebuttal.

That's because they fall on deaf ears (Matt. 7:6).

When I see someone, say, "Bill", and every time someone tries to offer friendship to Bill, and Bill simply kicks them in the head, I'm kind of dissuaded from trying to be "Bill's" friend. Kinda funny about me, I know, but I don't like being bullied.

It's funny to see people claim to be Christians, without an ounce of charity.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
That's because they fall on deaf ears (Matt. 7:6).

When I see someone, say, "Bill", and every time someone tries to offer friendship to Bill, and Bill simply kicks them in the head, I'm kind of dissuaded from trying to be "Bill's" friend. Kinda funny about me, I know, but I don't like being bullied.

It's funny to see people claim to be Christians, without an ounce of charity.
Those who can do

Those who can't post excuses

and offer ad hominem and insult

BTW (MT 7:6) take the log out of your eye
 
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