Saved by--what???

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Why do you refuse to answer my simple questions? Especially when I have answered your questions time without number and dealt with all of your points and Bible verses?

Now, when are you going to give me the CORRECT answers to these questions?

1.In Luke 7:50, what did Jesus say ACTUALLY SAVED the woman? The exact word He used?
"Jesus said to her, 'Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace."

I have a couple of questions for Lutherans:

1) Do Lutherans believe one is saved by faith--or by God's grace?

2) If we are going to claim particular "saved" verses--then how do the Lutherans collate their theology to the rest of the Biblical witness--concerning "saved"?

1 Peter 3:20-21---King James Version (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 4:16--King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Corinthians 9:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 7:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

Romans 11:14--King James Version (KJV)

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

1 Timothy 2:15---King James Version (KJV)

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Mark 16:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Ever hear of "context"--that old bugaboo of your church? Concerning the verses you quoted?

Where does the Bible say we are NOT saved by faith in Jesus Christ? What does "believe in" mean? As in "For God so loved the world that He gave His One and only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM will have eternal life"?
 
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dberrie2020

Well-known member
Ever hear of "context"--that old bugaboo of your church? Concerning the verses you quoted?
LOL!!! Bonnie--every scripture which violates Lutheran theology is "out of context":

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Please feel free to explain how the above scriptures are "out of context".

Where does the Bible say we are NOT saved by faith in Jesus Christ?

Where does it state we are not saved by any of the "saved" scriptures?


1 Peter 3:20-21---King James Version (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 4:16--King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Corinthians 9:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 7:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

Romans 11:14--King James Version (KJV)

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

1 Timothy 2:15---King James Version (KJV)

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Mark 16:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Ephesians 2:8---King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
What does "believe in" mean? As in "For God so loved the world that He gave His One and only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM will have eternal life"?

What is your evidence those who keep His commandments aren't the ones who believe in Christ?

John 14:21---King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


Tell us, Bonnie--is the love of God necessary for eternal life to occur?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Could you tell us what the two great commandments are--and how they relate to belief in Christ?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
LOL!!! Bonnie--every scripture which violates Lutheran theology is "out of context":

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Please feel free to explain how the above scriptures are "out of context".



Where does it state we are not saved by any of the "saved" scriptures?


1 Peter 3:20-21---King James Version (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 4:16--King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Corinthians 9:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 7:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

Romans 11:14--King James Version (KJV)

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

1 Timothy 2:15---King James Version (KJV)

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Mark 16:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Ephesians 2:8---King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace." Luke 7:50. What did Jesus actually tell the woman saved her?

"For God so loved the world that He gave His One and only Son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."

What does "believe in" mean, dberrie? What did Jesus say actually saved the woman in Luke 7:50?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
LOL!!! Bonnie--every scripture which violates Lutheran theology is "out of context":

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Please feel free to explain how the above scriptures are "out of context".



Where does it state we are not saved by any of the "saved" scriptures?


1 Peter 3:20-21---King James Version (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 4:16--King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Corinthians 9:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 7:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

Romans 11:14--King James Version (KJV)

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

1 Timothy 2:15---King James Version (KJV)

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Mark 16:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Ephesians 2:8---King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Where does any of these verses state that we are NOT saved by faith in Jesus Christ?

"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace." (Luke 7:50) What did Jesus tell the woman actually saved her? What word did He actually use?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
What is your evidence those who keep His commandments aren't the ones who believe in Christ?

John 14:21---King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.


Tell us, Bonnie--is the love of God necessary for eternal life to occur?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Could you tell us what the two great commandments are--and how they relate to belief in Christ?
Where did I write that those who keep the commandments are not the ones who believe in Christ? Where did I actually write that?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace." Luke 7:50. What did Jesus actually tell the woman saved her?
Her faith.

So--what did these scriptures testify saves one here?

1 Peter 3:20-21---King James Version (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 4:16--King James Version (KJV)
16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Corinthians 9:22---King James Version (KJV)
22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

1 Corinthians 7:16---King James Version (KJV)

16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

Romans 11:14--King James Version (KJV)

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

1 Timothy 2:15---King James Version (KJV)

15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Mark 16:16---King James Version (KJV)
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Ephesians 2:8---King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

How are you claiming Luke7:50 precludes any of those testimonies?

Bonnie--what is your evidence all those verses--and any others--are integral to faith in Christ? Belief in Him?

That's where the problem enters in, for the Lutherans, IMO--when they attempt to collate the faith and belief verses with the acts of obedience God requires to obtain His grace unto life--as a personal reception.

That's where Lutheran theology fails--in their attempt to separate out keeping God's commands--with His grace unto life--and insert "faith" or "belief" verses to exclude any such requirements of keeping His commandments--to receive of His grace unto life.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His One and only Son, that whoever believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."

What does "believe in" mean, dberrie? What did Jesus say actually saved the woman in Luke 7:50?
How are you attempting to use "belief" verses to exclude the connection of keeping the commandments--with His grace unto life?

That's what I would like to hear from the Lutherans--how do they feel belief disconnects the connection between acts of obedience to God--and His grace unto life?

Romans 6:16-22---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Where did I write that those who keep the commandments are not the ones who believe in Christ? Where did I actually write that?
Then could you please explain for us why to continue to pit "faith" and "belief" verses against scriptures which comport keeping His commandments with eternal life?

Whenever I post those scriptures--your comeback is Luke7:50, or John3:16, etc.

Why? Why not just agree with the testimony which connects His grace with our following Christ?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
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