Saving faith in Lutheran theology

dberrie2020

Well-known member
berrie2020 said:
I'm going to ask you what link you are attempting to make in those points--and the testimony linking walking in the light--with His Blood unto the forgiveness of sins?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

How do you feel it contradicts the scripture above? (if you do) What is your reasoning for those points?(I think they are good questions--I just don't see what your point is--please explain that for us, because I want to focus in on the point where the scripture links walking in the light with His Blood--and how it fits Lutheran theology)

Why won't you answer my simple questions about Eph. 2?

Because Ephesians 2 isn't going to answer why the Biblical writers connected walking in the light with His Blood.

Bonnie--let's approach this in another vein.

One has to either collate the entire Biblical witness--as a whole--or admit it isn't a reliable source of truth. I believe it harmonizes.

So--let's explain how we collate Ephesians2--and 1John1:7 together.

My explanation--when Paul references "works" in Ephesians2--that is a reference to certain rituals in the Mosaic Law--not walking in the light of the gospel.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version
19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Although I believe there are other points to discuss concerning "works"---how do you collate Ephesians2--and 1John1:7--as 1John1:7 defies Lutheran theology.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
John 1

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There [c]came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 [d]He came [e]as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 [f]He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.
9There was the true Light [g]which, coming into the world, enlightens every man."

6 Therefore AS you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, SO walk in Him, 7 HAVING BEEN firmly rooted and NOW being built up in Him and established IN your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude. (Colossians 2)

So--how do you feel the above verses interact with the testimony connecting walking in the light--with His Blood unto the forgiveness of sins?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Bonnie--that defies and explodes Lutheran theology--period. How does your above verses put those pieces back together--for Lutherans?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
What did Jesus tell the woman ACTUALLY SAVED HER? The actual word He used here?
Bonnie--I'm going to ask you to go to the specific thread I started just for you--and your question here.

The OP is about works being integral to faith.

My question--are works integral to faith--in Lutheran theology?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Bonnie--I'm going to ask you to go to the specific thread I started just for you--and your question here.

The OP is about works being integral to faith.

My question--are works integral to faith--in Lutheran theology?
Why do I need to go to any thread to get you to answer my simple question about Luke 7:50?

"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace."

What did Jesus actually tell the woman saved her? Care to answer that very simple question? on this thread?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
No. I see no link whatsoever. I have asked you to explain what link you see.



O.K.

Bonnie--here is the Lutheran onus:

The verse you reference links "working righteousness"--- with being accepted with God:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Seeing Lutheran theology preaches one is accepted with God, in eternal life-- PRIOR to any works--and excluding all works---

How does one link the testimony of that scripture with Lutheran faith alone theology?




I believe the scriptures link working righteousness with being accepted of God--regardless of what one believes about the unrighteous producing righteousness.

How are you linking the two?
by LINK, I meant connection between the 2. Not a link to follow.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Why do I need to go to any thread to get you to answer my simple question about Luke 7:50?

"Your FAITH has saved you; go in peace."

What did Jesus actually tell the woman saved her? Care to answer that very simple question? on this thread?

And that is the reason I started a thread specifically for discussing this scripture--just for you--because Luke7:50 does not address the point of this thread, IE--

Do Lutherans connects works as being integral to faith? So--how are you connecting Luke 7:50 to that specific point?

IOW--Is keeping the commandments--integral to faith in Christ?

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:3--King James Version (KJV)
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
by LINK, I meant connection between the 2. Not a link to follow.
I also.

So--How does one link(connect) the testimony of this scripture, connecting working righteousness with being accepted of Him-- with Lutheran faith alone theology, seeing Lutherans exclude all works in obtaining salvation?

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Yes, we do them IN salvation, not FOR salvation, IN faith in Jesus Christ, out of love for what He did for us on the cross.

What salvation event are you talking about?

This one: Eph 2:8
Or this one: Heb 9:28

And I wonder what this means:

the Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of God, 6 who will repay each person according to his works: 7 to those who patiently do good seek glory, honor, and immortality: eternal life; 8 but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of mankind who does evil, for the Jew first and also for the Greek, 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God....., on the Day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Romans 2
 
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Tertiumquid

Well-known member
What salvation event are you talking about?

This one: Eph 2:8
Or this one: Heb 9:28

And I wonder what this means:

the Day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of God, 6 who will repay each person according to his works: 7 to those who patiently do good seek glory, honor, and immortality: eternal life; 8 but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of mankind who does evil, for the Jew first and also for the Greek, 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God....., on the Day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. Romans 2
There's no need to wonder, it's actually simple:

Eph. 2:8-10 points out salvation by grace through faith as the gift of God, not of works. Notice verse 10 then describes the life / behavior of such a person: created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
There's no need to wonder, it's actually simple:

Eph. 2:8-10 points out salvation by grace through faith as the gift of God, not of works. Notice verse 10 then describes the life / behavior of such a person: created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

So, tell us, Tertiumquid--if we were created to walk in them--then why do the Lutherans exclude all those works in obtaining salvation?
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Yes, we do them IN salvation, not FOR salvation, IN faith in Jesus Christ, out of love for what He did for us on the cross.
This kind of love?

John 14:15---King James Version
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And if works are done only after salvation has occurred---then why are all judged according to works--after death--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)

19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Revelation 22:14--King James Version (KJV)
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

John 14:15--King James Version (KJV)
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 12:17--King James Version (KJV)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:3--King James Version (KJV)
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:24--King James Version (KJV)
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

John 14:21---King James Version (KJV)
21, He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Here's what you need to know about works.

There is NOTHING you need to do.
There is nothing YOU need to do.
There is nothing you NEED to do.
There is nothing you need to DO.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Here's what you need to know about works.

There is NOTHING you need to do.
There is nothing YOU need to do.
There is nothing you NEED to do.
There is nothing you need to DO.
I might add...there is nothing we CAN do, to add to the perfect works of Cnrist, done for us on the cross, to save us!

Welcome aboard, Mom!
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
So, tell us, Tertiumquid--if we were created to walk in them--then why do the Lutherans exclude all those works in obtaining salvation?
Because those works do not save us--they are the RESULT of being created in Christ Jesus--aren't they? Which is why Paul could write that we are CREATED IN Christ Jesus FOR good works--isn't it?
 
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