Scripture implies Are desires cause our choices

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.


We see here it is ultimately God causing our choices, but he uses means to do that,, our desires that flow from the heart.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Divine determinism is just a wrong source of security.

There's better ways to feel safe in God.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.


We see here it is ultimately God causing our choices, but he uses means to do that,, our desires that flow from the heart.
You do realize that was a future promise and had nothing to do with causing the desires of the Jews of that time
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
You do realize that was a future promise and had nothing to do with causing the desires of the Jews of that time
It wasn't just future. His covenant of grace was always operating. Or you suppose there were none among them walking in his ways out of a new heart at the time of this declaration?

He is talking in typology about spiritual Isreal, which is likewise analogy for believers.

They aways existed but would be manifest more clearly in a new era at earthly ministry as national Isreal would cease be in covenant.
 

fltom

Well-known member
It wasn't just future. His covenant of grace was always operating. Or you suppose there were none among them walking in his ways out of a new heart at the time of this declaration?

Scripture not theology

Ezekiel 36:22–26 (KJV 1900) — 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

It's future from when spoken

Jeremiah 31:31–33 (KJV 1900) — 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.

it's future from when spoken

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

future when spoken
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Scripture not theology

Ezekiel 36:22–26 (KJV 1900) — 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name’s sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

It's future from when spoken

Jeremiah 31:31–33 (KJV 1900) — 31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, That I will make a new covenant With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, And write it in their hearts; And will be their God, And they shall be my people.

it's future from when spoken

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

future when spoken
Yea that Scripture, the same one which points out God always has a remnant and not every one of them literally in as passage was "profanity his name" among the heathen. And his words didn't apply of them.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

We see here it is ultimately God causing our choices, but he uses means to do that,, our desires that flow from the heart.

This occurs after they realize and are libertarianly penitent. Then the Lord will call them back to their land and give them a new heart. This parallels our coming to hear out the gospel, then believe and get saved.

Deuteronomy 30:1, 3 (KJV)
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee,
and thou shalt call them to mind
among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

Ezekiel 39:26 (KJV) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Yea that Scripture, the same one which points out God always has a remnant and not every one of them literally in as passage was "profanity his name" among the heathen. And his words didn't apply of them.
What has that to do with the fact it was a future promise and fulfilled under the new covenant
 

fltom

Well-known member
The same thing was happening at the time in the remnant.
You have presented no scriptural evidence of that

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Ezekiel 36
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.


We see here it is ultimately God causing our choices, but he uses means to do that,, our desires that flow from the heart.
With the new heart through regeneration comes new desires. We become God seekers (if I can use that term) when we are quickened, not before. Faith and repentance are fruits of the Spirit, not a fruit of the fallen nature.
 

fltom

Well-known member
With the new heart through regeneration comes new desires. We become God seekers (if I can use that term) when we are quickened, not before. Faith and repentance are fruits of the Spirit, not a fruit of the fallen nature.
Afraid not

Unbelievers are not indwelt by the spirit and those do not display the fruit of the spirit

Galatians 5:22–26 (KJV 1900) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Afraid not

Unbelievers are not indwelt by the spirit and those do not display the fruit of the spirit

Galatians 5:22–26 (KJV 1900) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
You should stop using scripture. Your really abusing it.

Sad 😞
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Afraid not

Unbelievers are not indwelt by the spirit and those do not display the fruit of the spirit

Galatians 5:22–26 (KJV 1900) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
You said something. Then referenced scripture that doesn't match your claim in the least.
 

sjt18

New Member
Divine determinism is just a wrong source of security.

There's better ways to feel safe in God.
Why specifically is trusting God's sovereign will and goodness a "wrong source of security"?

What better ways are there to "feel" safe in God than to trust WHOLLY in God's "good pleasure"?

FTR, I would rather be safe than to "feel" safe. Feelings are a VERY poor test for whether something is true or not.
 

sjt18

New Member
You do realize that was a future promise and had nothing to do with causing the desires of the Jews of that time
I would agree that it is a "prophecy" (forthtelling, not foretelling) with both a near and future fulfillment. But on what basis do you claim it had "nothing to do" with the very people the words were spoken and written to?
 

fltom

Well-known member
You said something. Then referenced scripture that doesn't match your claim in the least.
You better re read then

unbelievers do not live in the spirit

Nor does this describe unbelievers

Galatians 5:1–26 (KJV 1900) — 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. 11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. 12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you. 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
You better re read then

unbelievers do not live in the spirit

Nor does this describe unbelievers

Galatians 5:1–26 (KJV 1900) — 1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. 7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? 8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. 9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. 11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. 12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you. 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
So where is the claim that unbelievers are not alive in the spirit? Van you highlight that part?

It's moot anyone as it is by the word that regenerates, and those that have new life believe that word.
 
Top