SDA and Hebrews 1:1-2

S

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Formersda said:
The verses you quote do not intimate continuous prophets who will give new revelation, that ended with the book of Revelation.
Click to expand...
AV Re 16:4-7 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

The very Book of Revelation calls your viewpoint, your opinion when in comes to "prophets" living in the time of the end, to be killed. Your other option in opinion in beliefs, is to not support the Book of Revelation as GOD's Truth.

Your opinion will not be considered plausible, for very much longer. When fulfillment of prophecies of prophets, can be verified by our physical senses.

AV Jn 7:16-18 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

A Spirit filled Christian would know this as a doctrine from GOD, Right ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
Last edited:
G

Geoff

Member
You haven't addressed Icy's point regarding the existence of prophets after Jesus's ascension, and the promotion of prophecy by Paul. The interpretation you're pushing is patently incorrect as it makes Paul and the Bible a liar in having prophets and prophecy after Jesus went to heaven. Your insistence on making this incorrect assertion leaves the perception of trolling, as it becomes more intransigent and less reasonable.
 
G

Geoff

Member
You haven't addressed Icy's point regarding the existence of prophets after Jesus's ascension, and the promotion of prophecy by Paul. The interpretation you're pushing is patently incorrect as it makes Paul and the Bible a liar in having prophets and prophecy after Jesus went to heaven. Your insistence on making this incorrect assertion leaves the perception of trolling, as it becomes more intransigent and less reasonable.
 
Yodas_Prodigy

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Geoff said:
You haven't addressed Icy's point regarding the existence of prophets after Jesus's ascension, and the promotion of prophecy by Paul. The interpretation you're pushing is patently incorrect as it makes Paul and the Bible a liar in having prophets and prophecy after Jesus went to heaven. Your insistence on making this incorrect assertion leaves the perception of trolling, as it becomes more intransigent and less reasonable.
Click to expand...

I have addressed it. There are prophets after the ascension. They don't have the ability to predict the future and they don't speak directly in behalf of God... Ironically, I asked first, and yet, I am expected to answer first...

So, what did the author to the Hebrews mean by those verses?
 
G

Geoff

Member
Yodas_Prodigy said:
I have addressed it. There are prophets after the ascension. They don't have the ability to predict the future and they don't speak directly in behalf of God... Ironically, I asked first, and yet, I am expected to answer first...

So, what did the author to the Hebrews mean by those verses?
Click to expand...
On what basis do you say they don't have the ability to predict the future, or that they don't speak directly in behalf of God? Consider Acts 21:10 which states:

10 After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”

Isn't that a prediction of the future? What do you say is the purpose of a prophet after the ascension if your unproven assertions are correct?

If you were to say that the ministry of a prophet (at all times in history) is to be God's messenger as opposed to solely predicting the future, I would agree with you and state that the SDA church believes the same. If a prophet is God's messenger, then they are speaking directly on God's behalf just as Agabus did; they speak the message which God has directed them to speak. Sometimes that includes foretelling the future, but not always.

To answer your question, ,the author of Hebrews meant that once prophets were the primary means of communication, but now Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh and He is now the primary link between God and humanity. That doesn't negate or remove the gift of prophecy (otherwise Paul woudn't have told us to seek that gift) but that it is not as primary as it was before. The point isn't to denigrate prophecy but to uplift Jesus.
 
Icyspark

Icyspark

Active member
Yodas_Prodigy said:
I have addressed it. There are prophets after the ascension. They don't have the ability to predict the future and they don't speak directly in behalf of God... Ironically, I asked first, and yet, I am expected to answer first...

So, what did the author to the Hebrews mean by those verses?
Click to expand...


Hi Yodas_Prodigy,

You are indeed trolling if on the one hand you adjust your original rigid premise of no prophets after Jesus, to allowing the apostles to be prophets. The response I identified as trolling went back to your original rigid premise which doesn't allow for even the apostles to be prophets. In this post you waffle back a bit and allow for there to be "prophets after the ascension" but then you wildly conjecture that "they don't have the ability to predict the future and they don't speak directly in behalf of God." Either you're trolling or you've never read the book of Revelation. :

Revelation 1:1-3​
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.​

So are you trolling or do want us to believe you've never read the book of Revelation and that you didn't realize that this is a book of prophecy which deals with things that "must soon take place." Is John speaking directly in behalf of God here? These three short verse unravel your self-inflicted and conflicted opinion.

Believe me, it's much easier to let the Bible read in its normative sense than to attempt to force it to fit a preconceived idea.

I pray this helps.
 
Yodas_Prodigy

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
Icyspark said:
Hi Yodas_Prodigy,

You are indeed trolling if on the one hand you adjust your original rigid premise of no prophets after Jesus, to allowing the apostles to be prophets. The response I identified as trolling went back to your original rigid premise which doesn't allow for even the apostles to be prophets. In this post you waffle back a bit and allow for there to be "prophets after the ascension" but then you wildly conjecture that "they don't have the ability to predict the future and they don't speak directly in behalf of God." Either you're trolling or you've never read the book of Revelation. :

Revelation 1:1-3​
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.​

So are you trolling or do want us to believe you've never read the book of Revelation and that you didn't realize that this is a book of prophecy which deals with things that "must soon take place." Is John speaking directly in behalf of God here? These three short verse unravel your self-inflicted and conflicted opinion.

Believe me, it's much easier to let the Bible read in its normative sense than to attempt to force it to fit a preconceived idea.

I pray this helps.
Click to expand...

None of you have answered my question, and I was willing to correct/clarify my answer, and then you start in to name calling... Yep, your tactics are no different than the Word Faith, LDS, and Oneness...

Is this how you attempt to drive off those who disagree with you?

How do you handle the passage in question?
 
P

pythons

Active member
Icyspark said:
Hi Yodas_Prodigy,

What do you do with all the New Testament prophets who are identified after Jesus?

God bless!
Click to expand...

Those prophets were "local" or "private" prophets. Biblical or Canonical Prophets writings are Scripture and Christians refer to them long after the prophet has died. Ellen White's writings are referred to by SDA's long after Ellen White passed away and this proves SDA's view Ellen White as a "pubic" Prophet.
 
Yodas_Prodigy

Yodas_Prodigy

Well-known member
pythons said:
Those prophets were "local" or "private" prophets. Biblical or Canonical Prophets writings are Scripture and Christians refer to them long after the prophet has died. Ellen White's writings are referred to by SDA's long after Ellen White passed away and this proves SDA's view Ellen White as a "pubic" Prophet.
Click to expand...

I am amazed at how they ducked the OP and follow-up questions... That is the Cult mentality... I have no problem engaging and discussing...
 
J

John t

Super Member
Icyspark said:
What do you do with all the New Testament prophets who are identified after Jesus?
Click to expand...

Name them
Cite the book, chapter and verse number of where they are found in the New Testament

NOTE:
I am attacking that STATEMENT of yours, and not your person

Icyspark said:
In the Bible there was what we now call the intertestamental period. It was a time of about 400 years between what we call the Old and New Testaments. During that time there were no prophets or prophesying. Based on your appeal to silence this 400 year period of silence would preclude your acceptance of Jesus or any of His apostles
Click to expand...

That is one name for that period, but a more accurate term to use, is 400 Years of Silence. It lasted between the last OT prophet to write a book, Malachi, and the last Old Testament, John the Baptizer, who proceeded Jesus Christ.

YP gives us more data to consider:

Yodas_Prodigy said:
Capital Letters for emphasis, not yelling...

Long ago ... God spoke to our fathers by the prophets... How did God communicate to "our Fathers"? Through the Prophets...
BUT, IN THE LAST DAYS HE HAS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON... How did God speak to us in the last days? BY HIS SON...

That means, he stopped speaking to us through Prophets... BUT ... BY HIS SON...
Click to expand...

NOTE:
I am attacking that STATEMENT of yours, and not your person

Therefore, according to Scripture, there were ZERO prophets after the resurrection of Jesus. We say that because it is the job of the prophets to prepare the people of God for the arrival of the Son of God. Here is the proof from the Bible where John the Baptizer quoting from Isaiah 40:3

John 1:​
“Who are you?” 20 And he confessed—and he did not deny, and confessed—“I am not the Christ!” 21 And they asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” And he said, “I am not!” “Are you the Prophet?” And he answered, “No!” 22 Then they said to him, “Who are you, so that we can give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself?”​
23 He said,​
​
“I am ‘the voice of one crying out in the wilderness,​
“Make straight the way of the Lord,” ’​
​
​
just as Isaiah the prophet said.” 24 (And they had been sent from the Pharisees.) 25 And they asked him and said to him, “Why then are you baptizing, if you are not the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”​
26 John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water. In your midst stands one whom you do not know— 27 the one who comes after me, of whom I am not worthy ⌞to untie⌟ the strap of his sandal!” 28 These things took place in Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.​
Lexham English Bible

The position you use to support the addition of prophets after Jesus Christ logically requires
 
F

Formersda

Active member
SDAchristian said:
AV Re 16:4-7 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

The very Book of Revelation calls your viewpoint, your opinion when in comes to "prophets" living in the time of the end, to be killed. Your other option in opinion in beliefs, is to not support the Book of Revelation as GOD's Truth.

Your opinion will not be considered plausible, for very much longer. When fulfillment of prophecies of prophets, can be verified by our physical senses.

AV Jn 7:16-18 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. 17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself. 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

A Spirit filled Christian would know this as a doctrine from GOD, Right ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Click to expand...
A few verses from Revelation about prophets still does not prove your point.
But the verses any person SHOULD be looking at and any SDA spouting EGW Sunday law fallacy is Revelation 22:18,19.
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy of this book, IF ANYONE ADDS TO THEM, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book.
and IF ANYONE TAKES AWAY from the words of this prophecy God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

The book of Revelation is enough, we don’t need a “prophet“ adding to or taking away from it. This book warns us and any follower of EGW must heed that warning.

​

 
Last edited:
B

Buzzard

Well-known member
Amos 8:11
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God,
that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread,
nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

4: Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy,
even to make the poor of the land to fail,

5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone,
that we may sell corn?
and the sabbath,
that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small,
and the shekel great,
and falsifying the balances by deceit?

Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing,
but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Rev.6:5
And when he had opened the third seal,
I heard the third beast say,
Come and see.
And I beheld, and lo a black horse;
and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

The Wheat Harvest and the Barley

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say,
A measure of wheat for a penny,
and three measures of barley for a penny;
and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
 
JonHawk

JonHawk

Well-known member
Icyspark said:
Revelation 1:1-3
The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants ...
John t said:
Name them
Cite the book, chapter and verse number of where they are found in the New Testament
Click to expand...
The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, 1 Corinthians 14
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through; 1 Thessalonians 5:23
 
G

Geoff

Member
Yodas_Prodigy said:
None of you have answered my question, and I was willing to correct/clarify my answer, and then you start in to name calling... Yep, your tactics are no different than the Word Faith, LDS, and Oneness...

Is this how you attempt to drive off those who disagree with you?

How do you handle the passage in question?
Click to expand...
I answered your question, and I didn't call you names.
 
G

Geoff

Member
pythons said:
Those prophets were "local" or "private" prophets. Biblical or Canonical Prophets writings are Scripture and Christians refer to them long after the prophet has died. Ellen White's writings are referred to by SDA's long after Ellen White passed away and this proves SDA's view Ellen White as a "pubic" Prophet.
Click to expand...
What basis do you have for this classification of "local" and "private"? No one calls EGW scripture, but all prophets have a message from God, that is the point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top